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From: [email protected] (dean.kaflowitz) Subject: Re: I thought commercial Advertising was Not allowed Organization: AT&T Distribution: na Lines: 65 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Freivald x8043) writes: > > > In article 164871 in talk.politics.misc, [email protected] > (Larry Margolis) writes: > > >>I would suggest that legal precedent defines a human being (i.e., a person > >>whose rights are protected by the Constitution and the law) as someone with > >>a functioning brain. > > >No, if you want to use legal precedent, you should take a look at the > >Model Penal Code, on which many states base their criminal code: > > My apologies if I was unclear; I was not trying to start a statutory > debate, since there are many (in some cases conflicting) statutes on > the books. I was merely suggesting a paradigm that might make sense > for a pro-choicer IMHO. Cite one of these conflicting statutes. You keep making these assertions, but you haven't supported any of them yet. I am speaking of statutes that conflict with the definition Larry posted. Why did you delete the code that Larry posted? Also, the Model Penal Code made perfect sense to me. Were you, perhaps, confused by it? Also, I am still looking for your definition. The one you used clearly indicates that a fetus is not a human being. > >>This is not likely to please either pro-lifers or > >>pro-choicers, but it is pretty clear from the legal/medical concept of > >>"brain death". > >"Brain death" is a method of deciding when a (known) person is legally > >dead; there's no analogous concept of "brain birth". > I have just coined it. You may object to the paradigm, but it would > make our treatment of human life statutorily consistent. Circular arguments are usually very consistent. > >>>> 3) If a parent has the right to choose to not take responsibility > >>>> for their own child, why are there laws and penalties against > >>>> child abandonment? > >>>This last question is irrelevant and something of a non sequitur. > >>>Can you establish some relevance or even some sense for it? > >>If at some point an unborn child is a human being, the parents clearly > >>have the same responsibilities toward her as any other parents have toward > >>their children. > >And no parent can be forced to supply bodily resources toward their children, > >even if necessary to save the child's life. > There is a confusion here between action and inaction: a parent does not have > to run out in front of a bus to save their child's life either, but a parent > IS required to feed his children. Again, your desire for consistency disappears when it does not suit your needs. The principle of protecting life is abandoned based on "action versus inaction." Not much of a principle. Suddenly you recognize that the claim on bodily resources is dependent on circumstances other than this principle of life. That's a very conevnient principle you have there, Matt. Dean Kaflowitz

From: [email protected] (Tim Rolfe) Subject: Re: quality of Catholic liturgy Lines: 56 In <[email protected]> [email protected] (John E Murray) writes: >I would like the opinion of netters on a subject that has been bothering my >wife and me lately: liturgy, in particular, Catholic liturgy. In the last few >years it seems that there are more and more ad hoc events during Mass. It's >driving me crazy! The most grace-filled aspect of a liturgical tradition is >that what happens is something we _all_ do together, because we all know how >to do it. Led by the priest, of course, which makes it a kind of dialogue we >present to God. But the best Masses I've been to were participatory prayers. [ . . . ] Having lived through the kicking and screaming in the 60s and 70s as the Catholics were invited to participate in the liturgy instead of counting their rosary beads during Mass, I find this comment interesting. There is a _massively_ longer tradition for proclaiming the Passion accounts without active participation. If you know the Latin, one really beautiful way to hear the Passion is it's being chanted by three deacons: the Narrator chants in the middle baritone range, Jesus chants in the bass, and others directly quoted are handled by a high tenor. This is actually the basis for the common proclamation of the Passion that John would prefer. But there is always a judgement call based on pastoral considerations. Each pastor makes his own decisions (it isn't a church-wide conspiracy against participation). The Palm Sunday liturgy, with its initial blessing and distribution of the palms and procession, is already getting long before you get to the Passion; some pastors feel that they should not make the people stand through that long narrative. Also, the orchestrated proclamation with multiple readers and public participation in the crowd quotations runs longer than the single-reader proclamation --- in churches with multiple Masses for the Sunday, it might be necessary to go with the briefer options just to "get 'em in and get 'em out". Each parish is different. Catholics are no longer canonically tied to their geographic parishes. It is possible that another Catholic parish in the Columbus area (based on the Ohio State address) has a liturgy closer to your preferences. Or talk to some of your fellow parishioners and see how common your preferences are --- pastors generally ARE willing to listen to non-confrontational requests. Though you probably should bring along a paramedic in case he reacts too strongly to the shock of people asked for a _longer_ Sunday Mass. Perhaps the problem is that recent liturgical development hasn't follow the continuous evolution model (the accumulation of small changes, no single one of which is too hard to take) but rather the punctuated equilibrium model (things stay the same and we get accustomed to them, then the marked mutation hits). {My apologies if I am mis-remembering the names of the evolutionary theories.} -- --- Tim Rolfe [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]

From: [email protected] (D.V.Prakash) Subject: Pointer..Xlib Nntp-Posting-Host: flashflood.cs.odu.edu Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk, Va Lines: 26 Hi I am trying to implement a pointer feature in Xlib I have multiple windows and all can take input and show output simultaneously on all other displays I want to implement a pointer feature I would like to get the pointer to come up on all windows once I choose pointer in the menu and every one should be able to see it Can you give me some hints as to how I should proceed I am new to Xlib replies will be greatly appreciated Thank you Prakash < [email protected] >

From: [email protected] (Walter Smith) Subject: Re: Part 1 and part 2 (re: Homosexuality) Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com [email protected] writes: > > The results of the passing amendment in > Colorado has created an organization who's posters are appearing all over > Colorado called "S.T.R.A.I.G.H.T." (I forget the whole definition off hand, > but the last part was Against Immoral Gross Homosexual Trash) and their motto > is "Working for a fag-free America" with an implicit advocation for violence. I live in Colorado, and have never heard of such a group. Obviously claims that their posters are appearing "all over Colorado" are a tad overdone... > This is sick, and it seems to be what you and Mr. Hudson, and others are > embracing. Hardly. Saying that homosexuality is a sin is a far cry from "Working for a fag-free America". Saying that I wouldn't want a homosexual babysitting for my kids doesnt mean I endorse "Against Immoral Gross Homosexual Trash". > We Christians have a LOOOOOOOOOONG tradition of coersion and oppression > towards those we feel don't 'measure up', And now we have homosexual advocates telling us that if we don't teach our kids that homosexuality is natural and a perfectly acceptable alternative lifestyle, then they will have it done for us. No, thanks. > The Gospel I believe is not so negative, rather it seeks ways to "include" > people. Absolutely. And the message is always, "go and sin no more". Not, Go and do whatever "feels good". One question, at the start of your post, you wrote: > I know many gays and I will NOT turn my back on them or their right to be free > form discrimination...I may have lost face with the greater Christian > community for the unpopularity of my beliefs, but so did the abolitionists > against the oppression of African-Americans. Many were even killed and > treated as runaway slaves for being "nigger-lovers" and such. I guess I've > decided the challenge is worth it. This sounds real nice, but struck me as a little odd. You're presenting yourself as if you were a straight Xian, who is sticking his neck out and taking on the challenge of speaking out in support of gays in the church. But I was under the impression that you yourself are gay. That's all well and fine, but presenting yourself as sticking out your neck to help "repressed others" seems a bit untruthful under the circumstances.... Walter

From: [email protected] Subject: Re: HST Servicing Mission Lines: 19 Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute Distribution: world,na In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Pat) writes: > > > SOmebody mentioned a re-boost of HST during this mission, meaning > that Weight is a very tight margin on this mission. > I haven't heard any hint of a re-boost, or that any is needed. > > why not grapple, do all said fixes, bolt a small liquid fueled > thruster module to HST, then let it make the re-boost. it has to be > cheaper on mass then usingthe shuttle as a tug. Nasty, dirty combustion products! People have gone to monumental efforts to keep HST clean. We certainly aren't going to bolt any thrusters to it. Ben

From: [email protected] (Cardinal Ximenez) Subject: Re: Opinions asked about rejection Organization: National Association for the Disorganized Lines: 23 Here's how I talk to non-Christians who are complaining about Hell. ME: "Do you believe you're going to Heaven?" HIM: "I don't believe in Heaven." ME: "So are you going there?" HIM: "If there was a heaven, I would." ME: "But since there isn't a Heaven, you're not going there, are you?" HIM: "No." The point is that Heaven is based on faith--if you don't believe in heaven, there's no way you're going to be in it. Of course, the next step is, "I don't believe in Hell either, so why will I be there?" It seems to me that Hell is eternal death and seperation from God. Most atheists do believe that when they die they will die forever, and never see God--so they do, in fact, believe that they're going to Hell. Hell doesn't have to be worse than earth to be Hell--because it's eternal, and it's a lot worse than Heaven. That's the only comparison that matters. Alan Terlep "Incestuous vituperousness" Oakland University, Rochester, MI [email protected] --Melissa Eggertsen Rushing in where angels fear to tread.

From: [email protected] (Perry E. Metzger) Subject: Re: More technical details Organization: Partnership for an America Free Drug Lines: 15 [email protected] (Stephen R. Tate) writes: > >Now, I'm not one of the people who distrusts the government at every >turn, but taking someone's word for it that the S1/S2 pairs are not kept >around is pushing what I'm willing to believe just a little bit too far. > Even if they somehow address this issue it is unlikely to be the only back door in -- they might even have a few intentionally visible to distract from the ones that aren't visible. -- Perry Metzger [email protected] -- Laissez faire, laissez passer. Le monde va de lui meme.

From: [email protected] (feigenbaum,benjamin) Subject: Re: was:Go Hezbollah! Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ Summary: An Untried Approach Lines: 59 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Brad Hernlem) writes: > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Dorin Baru) writes: > > |> (Brad Hernlem writes: > |> > |> > |> >Well, you should have noted that I was cheering an attack on an Israeli > |> >patrol INSIDE Lebanese territory while I was condemning the "retaliatory" > |> >shelling of Lebanese villages by Israeli and Israeli-backed forces. My "team", > |> >you see, was "playing fair" while the opposing team was rearranging the > |> >faces of the spectators in my team's viewing stands, so to speak. > |> > |> >I think that you should try to find more sources of news about what goes on > |> >in Lebanon and try to see through the propaganda. There are no a priori > |> >black and white hats but one sure wonders how the IDF can bombard villages in > |> >retaliation to pin-point attacks on its soldiers in Lebanon and then call the > |> >Lebanese terrorists. > |> > |> If the attack was justified or not is at least debatable. But this is not the > |> issue. The issue is that you were cheering DEATH. [...] > |> > |> Dorin > > Dorin, of all the criticism of my post expressed on t.p.m., this one I accept. > I regret that aspect of my post. It is my hope that the occupation will end (and > the accompanying loss of life) but I believe that stiff resistance can help to > achieve that end. Despite what some have said on t.p.m., I think that there is > a point when losses are unacceptable. The strategy drove U.S. troops out of > Lebanon, at least. > > Brad Hernlem ([email protected]) Hi Brad, I have two comments: Regarding your hope that the "occupation will end... belive that stiff resistance..etc. - how about an untried approach, i.e., peace and cooperation. I can't help but wonder what would happen if all violence against Israelis stopped. Hopefully, violence against Arabs would stop at the same time. If a state of non-violence could be maintained, perhaps a state of cooperation could be achieved, i.e., greater economic opportunities for both peoples living in the "territories". Of course, given the current leadership of Israel, your way may work also - but if that leadership changes, e.g., to someone with Ariel Sharon's mentality, then I would predict a considerable loss of life, i.e., no winners. Secondly, regarding your comment about the U.S. troops responding to "stiff resistance" - the analogy is not quite valid. The U.S. troops could get out of the neighborhood altogether. The Israelis could not. Just my $.02 worth, no offense intended. Respectfully, Ben.

From: [email protected] (John Ott) Subject: Re: Pinout needed for TIL311 Reply-To: [email protected] (John Ott) Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame Lines: 64 In article <segal.734995860@corolla7>, [email protected] (Gary Segal) writes: |> I've recently picked up some TIL311 display chips, but I can't find |> any information on them. It seems they are no longer made by TI, and |> I don't have an old enough data book. :-( |> |> It appears to have a dot-matrix led display capable of showing one hex |> digit. It is in a 14 pin DIP package, but pins 6, 9, and 11 are not |> present. |> |> If you have any information on this part (pinout, power requirments, |> functions, ...) please send me e-mail. |> |> Thank You, |> |> -- |> Gary Segal Motorola Inc. |> [email protected] Cellular Infrastructure Division |> --- we are standing here only to gaze at the wind --- pin function 1 led supply voltage 2 latch data input b 3 latch data input a 4 left decimal point cathode 5 latch strobe input 6 omitted 7 common gnd 8 blanking input 9 omitted 10 right decimal point cathode 11 omitted 12 latch data input d 13 latch data input c 14 logic supply voltage (5v) LATCH STROBE INPUT, pin 5, when low, the data in the latches follow the data on the latch data inputs. When high, the data in the latches will not change. If the display is blanked and then restored while the enable input is high, the previous character will again be displayed. BLANKING INPUT, pin 8, When high, the display is blanked regardless of the levels of the other inputs. When low, a character is displayed as determined by the data in the latches. The blanking input may be pulsed for intensity modulation. LATCH DATA INPUTS, pins 2,3,12,13, Data on these inputs are entered into the latches when the enable input is low. The binary weights of these inputs are A = 1, B = 2, C = 4, D = 8 DECIMAL POINT CATHODES, pins 4, 10, These LEDS are not connected to the logic chip. If a decimal point is used, an external resistor or other current limiting mechanism must be connected in series with it. LED SUPPLY, pin 1 This connection permits the user to save on regulated Vcc current by using a separate LED supply, or it may be externally connected to the logic supply (Vcc). LOGIC SUPPLY (Vcc), pin 14 Separate Vcc connection for the logic chip COMMON GROUND, pin 7, This is the vegative termnal for all logic and LED currents except for the decimal points. John [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Lukas Zahas) Subject: Re: How do DI boxes work? Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA Lines: 19 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Stephe Lewis Foskett) writes: > >I'm doing sound for a couple of bands around here and we need Direct >Input boxes for the keyboards. These are the little boxes that take a >line level out of the keyboard and transform it into low-Z for the run >to the mixer. Sadly they cost like $50 (or more) each and I'm going >to need like 5 or 10 of them! I looked inside one (belonging to >another band) and it looks like just a transformer. Does anyone have >any plans for building them? > $50 each!! Don't bother trying to make one yourself, just shop around a little. I've found DOD brand DI boxes for as cheap as $20 each. You can get higher end ones for more, but for PA use for bands, I wouldn't bother. Making one yourself might work, but getting a sturdy enough enclosure might be hard (they're made of heavy guage metal, since they're always on the floor, being kicked around a lot). For any additional questions on this topic, you might want to post to rec.audio.pro Lukas Zahas [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Leonidas Hepis) Subject: Re: Prophecy on NYC Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York Lines: 46 [email protected] (Mark Ashley) writes: In soc.religion.christian you write: >Regarding David Wilkerson's prophecies. While I'm not real sure of >his credibility, I do remember a book he wrote, called A VISION or >something like that. He made a prediction that people who bought gold >would be hurt financially. At the time, gold was up to about $800; >now it is less than half that. This prediction stuck in my mind >because a lot of people where I worked were buying gold. Note that the above type of prediction does not require a God to be made. An expert in a field can also predict things based on experience. Beware of predictions like "The volcano will erupt tomorrow!" Don't follow the preacher because of such statements that come true. Note also, that if I'm describing a (hypothetical) death of a friend as a result of his passion for fast motorcycles, I might say "his mother predicted he would die." Of course, his father may have said "he 'll make good money because of his hobby" and depending upon the final outcome of the situation I end up mentioning the one that's relevant. A reader down the road will get the impression that the mother or father had predicted accurately the event, when it was just a casual statement. Finally, on prophesies, note that there are many prophesies that can be fulfilled my people, often to fool believers. If I say, "Beware, the terminal will unexpectedly be shut off!" and then after 2 secs I turn it off (or have someone come out from another room and do it) there was no prediction. A similar situation arises with the establishment of the Jewish state. While pressing for it, prominent Jews argued that it was predicted that they'd have a state again, and that the time has come. (I've read this somewhere, but can't think of the source - if you can, please let me know.) In this case, the establishment of the state does not really fulfill the prophesy since the prophesy was used in order to push for the establishment of the state. Deciding what was truely a fulfillment of prophesy is very tricky. -leo -- "My mother wanted to save herself until marriage. Every |Leonidas Hepis day I thank God that she didn't. Because without pre- | marital sex, I would never have been born. Premarital |lhep_ltd@uhura sex -- what a beautiful choice." - Greg Weeks |.cc.rochester.edu

From: [email protected] (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE) Subject: Re: Patrick Division Correction! Originator: [email protected] Reply-To: [email protected] (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos Lines: 22 In article <[email protected]>, Robbie Po <[email protected]> writes: > > Well, I was a little off in those predictions! One, I didn't count on the > Devils scoring 6 goals tonight in a 6-6 tie, hence, there goes the streak! > > Secondly, I didn't count on the Islanders getting just 1 point out of 4 > against the Whalers in two games. So, no more Isles/Capitals. > > New predicitons : > > 1-PENGUINS VS 4-ISLANDERS Penguins in 6 or 7 > > 2-CAPITALS VS 3-DEVILS Devils in 7 > Why should we pay your predictions any heed, considering you couldn't even predict the proper matchups? Maybe you should try forecasting the weather instead. Frank Salvatore [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Droopy) Subject: Re: Playoff predictions Organization: Clarkson University Lines: 39 Nntp-Posting-Host: logic.clarkson.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] PATRICK 1st rd: Pens over Isles in 4. Devils over Caps in 6. 2nd: Pens over Devils in 7. ADAMS 1st rd: B's over Sabres in 5. Nords over Habs in 5. 2nd: B's over Nords in 6. NORRIS 1st: Hawks over Stars/Blues in 5. Wings over Leafs in 7. 2nd: Hawks over Wings in 5. SMYTHE 1st: Jets over Canucks in 7. (call it a hunch) Flames over Kings in 5. 2nd: Jets over Flames in 6. WALES Pens over B's in 7. CAMPBELL Hawks over Jets in 5. STANLEY Pens over Hawks in 5. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Bri Farenell [email protected] + + AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey Go USA Hockey! + + Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81 '86 '89 '92 + + Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66 '91 '93 + + Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90 '91 + + AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: [email protected] + + CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS + + PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [email protected] (Ron Baalke) Subject: Iapetus/Saturn Eclipse Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory Lines: 79 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Forwarded from John Spencer ([email protected]): There will be two eclipses of Iapetus by Saturn and its rings, in May and July. Please spread the word! Here's some information about the events, and then a couple of messages from Jay Goguen of JPL appealing for thermal observations of the eclipse to learn more about the thermal properties of Iapetus. He might also have some money available... John Spencer, 1993/04/21 Iapetus will be eclipsed by the shadows of Saturn's rings and Saturn itself on 1993/05/01-02 (18:27-13:43 UT) and again on 1993/07/20-21, (21:16-09:38 UT). Timing is as follows; 1993 May 1-2 A-ring ingress 18:27 egress 19:30 B-ring ingress 19:51 egress 21:42 C-ring egress 23:00 Saturn ingress 23:59 egress 10:02 B-ring ingress 10:28 egress 12:19 A-ring ingress 12:40 egress 13:43 1993 July 20-21 Saturn ingress 21:16 egress 05:08 A-ring ingress 05:13 (grazing) egress 09:38 Times could be 30 minutes later according to an alternate ephemeris, and photometric observations are important for refining Iapetus' orbit. Because the Sun's size projected on the rings as seen from Iapetus is 3100 km it's unlikely that we will learn anything new about the rings themselves from the observations. See Soma (1992), Astronomy and Astrophysics 265, L21-L24 for more details. Thanks to Andy Odell of Northern Arizona University for bringing the events to my attention. THERMAL OBSERVATIONS? Jay Goguen ([email protected]) writes: To me, the interesting thing to do would be thermal IR of the 20 July disappearance into the shadow of the planet to measure thermal inertia, etc. Unfortunately, the 21:30 UT of this event renders it inaccessible, except from Russia. Even from Calar Alto, Saturn is rising through 3 airmasses at 23:00 UT. Do you know anyone in Russia or Ukraine with a big telescope and 10 um instrumentation that's looking for something to do? I'd be willing to make a personal grant of >$100 for the data. Jay and again: please try to encourage anyone that can observe the iapetus planet disappearance to do so at thermal wavelengths. My impression would be that it's not an easy observation. Iapetus will be faint and getting fainter in eclipse, so you'll need a big telescope that's a good IR telescope and reasonable 10 - 20 um instrumentation. I don't think that combination is widely available at the longitudes that are well placed for observation. We need SOFIA for this one. One possibility would be the IR telescope in India, but it's only a 1.2 m. jay ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | [email protected] | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | The aweto from New Zealand /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | is part caterpillar and |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | part vegetable.

From: [email protected] (Peter Haase) Subject: Seeking FAX For Network Access Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory Lines: 9 I am seeking recommendations/Vendors for a Networkable FAX. It would mainly be used for outgoing FAX's from Mac's on our Net. The ability to Fax from other platforms would be a plus. Ethernet interface would be preffered but LocalTalk would suffice. Can anyone provide any info? Thanks in advance, --Peter <==================================+==================================> Peter Haase + Internet: [email protected] Network Manager + Los Alamos National Laboratory

From: [email protected] (Dr. Richard Timmer) Subject: Approach for Windows? Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 [ Article crossposted from comp.os.ms-windows.apps ] [ Author was Dr. Richard Timmer ] [ Posted on 24 Apr 93 23:11:16 GMT ] Hello WinNetters: I have seen a great deal of discussion herein on the relative merits of MS Access and Borland Paradox/Win. However, are there any users out there with experience with the database package called "Approach". It has gotten a number of very good reviews from the various mags. and it seems like it would require less hardware overhead than Paradox. I have ruled out Access because some aspects of it are extremely non-intuitive, e.g. requiring a field to always have a value. I like what I've seen of Paradox, but it seems like the resource requirements are greater than what I have (386/25 MHz, 6 MB ram). So, please provide me with your thoughts are "Approach", good and bad. Thanks. Richard Timmer

From: [email protected] (Vladimir Kuznetsov) Subject: Re: How many homosexuals are there? Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Distribution: usa Lines: 22 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes: >Perhaps 1%, but most likely not more than 2%. A new study >(discrediting Kinsey) says so. >-- Yes, I saw today in 6 o'clock news on KCBS here in San Francisco this statistic quoted. 2.2% men had sex with another man. 1.3% cinsider themself homosexual. I understand of course that because this statistic goes against common believe and not PC-correct it must be complete BS. Thx vlad -- Vladimir Kuznetsov (408)252-5455 Natural Intelligence Consulting [email protected] 73437,[email protected] [email protected]

From: [email protected] (James Davis Nicoll) Subject: Re: Vandalizing the sky. Organization: University of Western Ontario, London Nntp-Posting-Host: prism.engrg.uwo.ca Lines: 15 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Nick Haines) writes: > >Would they buy it, given that it's a _lot_ more expensive, and not >much more impressive, than putting a large set of several-km >inflatable billboards in LEO (or in GEO, visible 24 hours from your >key growth market). I'll do _that_ for only $5bn (and the changes of >identity). I've heard of sillier things, like a well-known utility company wanting to buy an 'automated' boiler-cleaning system which uses as many operators as the old system, and which rumour has it costs three million more per unit. Automation is more 'efficient' although by what scale they are not saying... James Nicoll

From: [email protected] (Randy S. Turgeon) Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN Keywords: ESPN, Detroit, Toronto, Hockey Coverage Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH. Lines: 29 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Joseph Charles Achkar) writes: > > It was nice to see ESPN show game 1 between the Wings and Leafs since >the Cubs and Astros got rained out. Instead of showing another baseball >game, they decided on the Stanley Cup Playoffs. A classy move by ESPN. > The only reason ESPN showed that hockey came was because there was no other baseball game scheduled for the evening. Randy [email protected] > > %*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* > * __ ______________ ____________________________________ % > % \ \_)____________/ A L L E Z L E S B L U E S ! ! ! * > * \ __________/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ % > % \ ________/ * > * \ _______/ Joe Ashkar % > % \ \ Contact for the Blues * > * \ \ SAINT LOUIS [email protected] % > % (___) BLUES * > *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%

Subject: Re: Looking for Tseng VESA drivers From: [email protected] () Organization: /usr/local/lib/organization Nntp-Posting-Host: patan.fi.upm.es Lines: 10 Hi, this is my first msg to the Net (actually the 3rd copy of it, dam*ed VI!!). Look for the new VPIC6.0, it comes with updated VESA 1.2 drivers for almost every known card. The VESA level is 1.2, and my Tseng4000 24-bit has a nice affair with the driver. Hope it is useful!! Bye

From: [email protected] (Xavier Gallagher) Subject: Re: So Why Does Clayton Cramer Fixate on Molesting Children Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK Lines: 32 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: >From: [email protected] (Clayton Cramer) >- >-2. The homosexuals have gotten a law passed in California that >-makes it illegal to discriminate against a person in employment >-based on their sexual orientation -- and not defined sexual >-orientation. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation. >- > GOT HIM! Cramer is now claiming that pedophilia is a sexual orientation rather than a chronicly homosexual condition. This changes the whole argument in as much that is pedophilia is a sexual orientation all of its own peds cannot be called homosexual. Peds are peds who may have a preference as to the sex of the child they molest (though most do not have a preference) but that is a subset of their basic ped nature. Cramer has as much as admitted that peds and gay men are different orientations. All we need now is to get him to admit that the apparent similarities he keeps on about are just optical illusions. xavier -- * Xavier Gallagher*************************** Play *************************** * Cheap * Part time Dark Overlord * by ** [email protected] ****** * World Wide UUCP * Of the universe * email *************************** * Feeds & E-mail *************************** =--> Advanced Dungeons & Dragons

From: [email protected] (Jake Livni) Subject: Re: The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Costly and Dangerous Mistake Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department Lines: 32 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Dan Gannon) writes: > > THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND DANGEROUS MISTAKE > > by Theodore J. O'Keefe > >HARD BY THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT, within clear view of the Jefferson >Memorial, an easy stroll down the Mall to the majestic Lincoln Memorial, >has arisen, on some of the most hallowed territory of the United States of >America, a costly and dangerous mistake. On ground where no monument yet >marks countless sacrifices and unheralded achievements of Americans of all >races and creeds in the building and defense of this nation, sits today a >massive and costly edifice, devoted above all to a contentious and false >version of the ordeal in Europe during World War II, of non-American >members of a minority, sectarian group. Now, in the deceptive guise of >tolerance, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum begins a propaganda >campaign, financed through the unwitting largess of the American taxpayer, >in the interests of Israel and its adherents in America. After reading the first paragraph, a quick scan confirmed my first impression: this is a bunch of revisionist and anti-semitic hogwash. The NY Times reported on April 18, 1993 that the museum "was built through private contributions on Federal land". Your hate-mongering article is devoid of current and historical fact, intellectual content and social value. Down the toilet it goes..... -- Jake Livni [email protected] Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.

From: [email protected] (drieux, just drieux) Subject: History, Its Dangerous Nntp-Posting-Host: vladimir.wetware.com Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper Lines: 43 In article [email protected], [email protected] (Maurice Rynders) writes: >In article <[email protected]> meyerj (Jon Meyer) writes: >>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Peter >>D. Hampe) writes: >>> [email protected] (drieux, just drieux) writes: >>> >>> >pps: Why is there Still NO CALL to end Clinton's Illegal >>> >war in Somalia????? >>> >>> Hold on there tex - it's not his war. Everybody knows that >>> its Part of the ReaganBushLegacy. > ^^^^^^? >> >>Yeah, sure. They created the starvation there. They put the warlords >>there. Yep. Sure. Been brainwashed by the media, haven't you? > >He probably is. By the way: what has Reagan to do with this any way? I >bet most people had never even heard of Somalia, during the Reagan >administration! Ok boys and girls, "What was the 'Ogadan War'????" The Money Raised in Band-Aid covered How Much of the Cost of Which Soviet Client State to replace what catagory of weapon system lost in the aforementioned war? Why was the Joke: "We arm the World." Really Not that funny? Gonzo Station is the designation for WHICH USN Op Area? and the primary threat targets in the Area Were:..... ciao drieux --- "All Hands to the Big Sea of COMedy! All Hands to the Big Sea of COMedy!" -Last Call of the Wild of the Humour Lemmings

From: [email protected] (Rajan Ranga) Subject: An external timer Article-I.D.: gap.1pli7gINNi6b Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: fleming.caltech.edu I was wondering if anyone knows of a chip that that is similar to the internal timer 0 on the Intel 80C188? I want a timer that has a Maxcount A and B and the output should the same as Intel's timer. I called Intel and they told me that they don't make such a chip. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks in advance. Rajan Ranga E-mail: [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Richard Warner) Subject: Re: California Insurance Commissioner Endorses Federal Legislation to Protect Consumers from Scam Insurance Companies Organization: San Jose State University - Math/CS Dept. Lines: 29 [email protected] (John Eaton) writes: >Nigel Allen ([email protected]) wrote: >: Here is a press release from the California Department of Insurance. >: >: California Insurance Commissioner Endorses Federal Legislation to >: Protect Consumers from Scam Insurance Companies >---------------- >I may be a little dense but I would have thought that protecting consumers >from scam insurance companies would be the prime objective of something >called the Cal insurance Commission. If they aren't accomplishing that now >then why do we need them? Very simple. An 'Insurance Commissioner' is a bureaucrat - a regulator. It is his/her duties to make rules to enforce laws. He/she cannot make laws. If there is no law that covers a specific subject, say scam insurance companies, a regulator cannot create one. So they have to go to a proper legislative body to get such a law enacted. For the California Insurance Commissioner, there are two possible legislative bodies: the California State Legislature and the U.S. Congress. We all know how little the California State Legislature accomplishes, esp. along the lines of insurance reform legislation (negative movement). So Garamendi wants the feds to do it, because: (a) he has a better chance of getting a federal law through, and (b) since many of the scam companies work across state lines/national borders, it is better to have a law that reach out into other jurisdictions. >John Eaton >!hp-vcd!johne

From: [email protected] (edward.w.mcfarland) Subject: Re: Speeding ticket from CHP Organization: AT&T Distribution: usa Lines: 53 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Daniel Matejka) writes: >In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Allen B. Downey) writes: >> Fight your ticket : California edition by David Brown 1st ed. >> Berkeley, CA : Nolo Press, 1982 >> >>The second edition is out (but not in UCB's library). Good luck; let >>us know how it goes. >> > Daniel Matejka writes: > The fourth edition is out, too. But it's probably also not >very high on UCB's "gotta have that" list. > >In article <65930405053856/[email protected]> [email protected] (Peter Nesbitt) writes: >>Riding to work last week via Hwy 12 from Suisun, to I-80, I was pulled over by >>a CHP black and white by the 76 Gas station by Jameson Canyon Road. The >>officer stated "...it <looked> like you were going kinda fast coming down >>highway 12. You <must have> been going at least 70 or 75." I just said okay, >>and did not agree or disagree to anything he said. > > Can you beat this ticket? Personally, I think it's your Duty As a Citizen >to make it as much trouble as possible for them, so maybe they'll Give Up >and Leave Us Alone Someday Soon. Right on, it is every citizen's right and duty to FORCE government accountability. (anecdotes deleted) > I've never tried proving the cop was mistaken. I did get to see >some other poor biker try it. He was mixing up various facts like >the maximum acceleration of a (cop) car, and the distance at which >the cop had been pacing him, and end up demonstrating that he couldn't >possibly have been going as fast as the cop had suggested. He'd >brought diagrams and a calculator. He was Prepared. He lost. Keep >in mind cops do this all the time, and their word is better than yours. Also keep in mind that cops will LIE in court to get their way! (don't get me started by asking how I know ;) If you decide to fight you have to be ready for this as well as devise strategy to make the cop's story doubtful in the judge/jury's mind. >Maybe, though, they don't guess how fast bikes are going all the time. >Besides, this guy didn't speak English very well, and ended up absolutely >confounding the judge, the cop, and everyone else in the room who'd been >recently criminalized by some twit with a gun and a quota. > Ahem. OK, I'm better now. Maybe he'd have won had his presentation >been more polished. Maybe not. He did get applause. |~~~~~| |_____| Ed McFarland [email protected] (_) /| US Marshalls #9 (corner marshals) /| |/ The best seat in the house to watch |_| motorcycle roadracing! / \ NO Passing on Waving Yellow

From: [email protected] (Pat) Subject: Re: NAVSTAR positions Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net C-3's bird may be flaking out and expecting to die soon. or C-3 may orbit over major users areas, and it may be needed to provide redundancy on that plane while b-4 may orbit over hicksville, and not have muc of a user community. pat

From: [email protected] (J.M. Gerard) Subject: Re: Xterm w. ansi color/mouse support Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics Lines: 24 [email protected] (Vidiot) writes: >In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: ><I've had several requests to post any information I've gathered regarding my ><search for ansi mouse/color xterm source. >< ><My only response was from Larry W. Virden who writes: >< ><> the mit x11 r4 and r5 both provide mouse escape sequences now. There ><> are several color xterm enhancements on export.lcs.mit.edu:/contrib . >< ><Indeed I found color_xterm.tar.Z in that directory along with lots of other ><FUN stuff for X. Thanks Larry. >I also found it on uunet in /pub/window-sys/X/contrib, for those that can >only do anonuucp (like me). But I noticed that the thing is dated 9/12/90, >making it over two years old. Is this really the latest version? Are we talking about an xterm which would accept the same escape sequences as that for VT340 (or colour decterm/dxterm)? I thought that was called colxterm (and my testing of it shows some oddities that might be bugs or might be my program going wrong). I'm also unsure of what is meant by "ansi mouse xterm"!

From: [email protected] (Jonathan E. Quist) Subject: Re: Happy Easter! Nntp-Posting-Host: birdie.i88.isc.com Organization: Lachman Technology, Incorporated, Naperville, IL Lines: 13 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: >BA were trying to sell RR to BMW - even tested a BMW V16 in a Corniche!! I >think it will remain British for the time being - until BA get hard up >anyway! Rolls-Royce owned by a non-British firm? Ye Gods, that would be the end of civilization as we know it. -- Jonathan E. Quist [email protected] Lachman Technology, Incorporated DoD #094, KotPP, KotCF '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep" Naperville, IL __ There's nothing quite like the pitter-patter of little feet, \/ followed by the words "Daddy! Yay!"

Organization: City University of New York From: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Most recent U.N. members? Lines: 4 # 179 Czech Republic # 180 Republic of Slovakia They were admitted early this year. Liechenstein was also recently admitted. Also San Marino. Both within the last 12 months. Incredible what passes for a nation-sta state nowadays.

From: [email protected] (Clinton/Gore '92) Subject: CLINTON: VP Gore Joins Students in Orlando for 1st Kids Earth Summit Organization: Project GNU, Free Software Foundation, 675 Mass. Ave., Cambridge, MA 02139, USA +1 (617) 876-3296 Lines: 102 NNTP-Posting-Host: life.ai.mit.edu WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT _________________________________________________________________ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Heidi Kukis THURSDAY, April 15, 1993 202-456-7035 Julia Payne 202-456-7036 GORE JOINS STUDENTS IN ORLANDO FOR FIRST KIDS EARTH SUMMIT Will Take Part in Special Town Meeting On the Environment ******** SATURDAY, APRIL 17, 1993 - ORLANDO, FLORIDA ********** WASINGTON -- Joining students from across the United States and around the world for the first ever Kids Earth Summit, Vice President Al Gore will travel to Orlando, Florida, on Saturday (4/17) and participate in a special town hall meeting, hosted by Linda Ellerbee for broadcast on Nickelodeon, to hear the young people's concerns and share ideas about the environment. The Vice President will take part in the "Kids World Council: Plan It for the Planet" from 2-5 PM (EDT) Saturday (4/17) in Orlando, Florida. He will tour a display of student environmental projects, then videotape the town hall meeting where he will discuss with student delegates their concerns about the environment and their plans for an environmentally sound future. The town hall meeting will be moderated by Linda Ellerbee and taped for a news special, "Nickelodeon Special Edition: Plan It for the Planet," which will air on Sunday, April 18 at 8 PM (EDT). It is sponsored by Nickelodeon and the Children's Earth Fund. "Young people care about the environment because they know it affects our future. Across the country and around the world, young people are speaking out about the environmental challenges we face. They are identifying problems, thinking about solutions, and they are demanding action from their leaders," the Vice President said. The Kids World Council delegates are meeting for three days in Orlando to discuss how to save energy and switch to renewable energy. They will be following the format and goals of the Earth Summit that took place last year in Rio de Janeiro. The Vice President led the Senate Delegation to the Earth Summit. "I look forward to hearing what young people have to say about the environment and their future. Their insight into the world around us is important," the Vice President said. (MORE)  SCHEDULE FOR THE VICE PRESIDENT Saturday, April 17, 1993 2:15 PM (EDT) VICE PRESIDENT TOURS display of student environmental projects. Nickelodeon Studios Orlando, Florida 3:30 PM (EDT) VICE PRESIDENT TAKES PART IN TOWN HALL MEETING with Kids World Council delegates and Linda Ellerbee. Nickelodeon Studios Orlando, Florida 5 PM (EDT) VICE PRESIDENT DEPARTS from Kids World Council for Washington, D.C. NOTE: PRESS THAT WISH TO ATTEND SHOULD CONTACT EILEEN PARISE OR MARTY VON RUDEN IN FLORIDA AT 407-352-7589. ##

From: [email protected] (Joseph Askew) Subject: Re: Israeli Expansion-lust Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide Lines: 46 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Amir Y Rosenblatt) writes: >In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Joseph Askew) writes: >>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Adam Shostack) writes: >>It depends entirely on how you define 'war'. The actual fighting largely >>predates the Arab invasions - after all Deir Yassin happened in midApril >>well before the Arab invasion. >How do you define war? Do seiges and constant attacks on villiages >count as acts of war, or is that only when the Jews do them? I would hope that if you intend to have a reasonable discussion you might wait until I express an opinion before deciding I should be flamed for it. As for 'war' I am not sure how I would define it. If you just look at attacks on villages then there is no way of deciding when it started. Would you count the riots in the 20's and 30's? Violence but not war. I personally think that 'war', as opposed to civil disturbance or whatever, requires organisation, planning and some measure of regualr or semi-regular forces. Perhaps the Arab Liberation Army counts. I could easily be convinced it was so. From what I know they did not have a great deal of planning let alone organisation. The Haganah and Palmach certainly did. That is not a cause for criticism, it merely reflects the great organisation generally in the 'Zionist' camp. >Of course, this isn't war, since it's only the Arabs attacking. Now you are being silly aren't you? In any case the war did NOT start with the invasion of the Arab Armies. You see we both agree on something. And the previous posters were wrong, no? >Just like last week when the Fatah launched Katyusha rockets >against Northern israel. Where does uprising end and war begin? Again I am not sure, I doubt you want my opinion anyway, but I think war requires organisation as I said before. It needs a group to command and plan. If Fatah lauches rockets from Southern Lebanon (and are you sure you have the right group - not the Moslems again?) then that sounds like war to me. Stone throwing does not. Joseph Askew -- Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud In the autumn stillness, see the Pleiades, [email protected] Remote in thorny deserts, fell the grief. Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care North of our tents, the sky must end somwhere, Actually, I rather like Brenda Beyond the pale, the River murmurs on.

From: [email protected] (Greg Hennessy) Subject: Re: Keeping Spacecraft on after Funding Cuts. Organization: University of Virginia Lines: 13 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Pat) writes: #The better question should be. #Why not transfer O&M of all birds to a separate agency with continous funding #to support these kind of ongoing science missions. Since we don't have the money to keep them going now, how will changing them to a seperate agency help anything? -- -Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia USPS Mail: Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA Internet: [email protected] UUCP: ...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w

From: [email protected] (Calvin N Hobbes) Subject: Wanted: One way flight from Des Moines to Chicago Summary: Ticket needed on 28th of May Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 5 Hi I need a one way flight ticket from Des Moines to Chicago on the 28th of May 1993. please send your replies to [email protected] or to this account as soon as possible thank you

Organization: Central Michigan University From: Martin D. Hill <[email protected]> Subject: Re: NHL team in Milwaukee Lines: 24 Well put, Jason. I am not from Wisconsin, but I have close relatives who live in Port Washington (about 30 minutes north of Milwaukee), I visit the city regularly, and I have been in the Bradley four times to see the Admirals play and the NCAA Hockey Championships. It is a beautiful building. The Pettits and the city like to promote it as the best facility for hockey in North America. As to what will happen with the Admirals if Milwaukee does acquire a franchise, word is the team will move to Green Bay and play in the Brown County Arena. Once again, the Admirals are an independent franchise, and the people of Milwaukee have been supporting them well. The games I have been to have seen crowds anywhere from 10,000 to 13,000, which are numbers some NHL teams (i.e. the Islanders, Hartford, New Jersey) would be envious of having on some nights. Plus the fact that the city is able to support a minor league franchise without the glamour of having an NHL club affiliated to it is testimony to the amount of hockey interest exists in the city. Sincerely, Martin Hill, Rt. 2, Box 155B, Sault Ste. Marie, MI (Home of LSSU: Go Lakers!) P.S. Anybody know what the attendance figures are for the IHL and how Milwaukee stacks up against other IHL cities such as Atlanta, Phoenix, San Diego, Cleveland, and Cincinnati? If so, please reply.

From: [email protected] (Stephen Herrod) Subject: MEWIN Latex Help Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. Lines: 9 I posted this to the apps group and didn't get any response, so I'll try here. I am trying to use the latex help feature available in emacs for windows and read that you need a separate latexhlp.zip file along with a vms2hlp.zip file to convert this to windows help. Has anyone found these files or gotten this command help to work? Thanks, Steve Herrod

Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center From: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Foreskin Troubles Lines: 3 This is generally called phimosis..usually it is due to an inflammation, and ca n be retracted in the physician's offfice rather eaaasily. One should see a GP , or in complicated cases, a urologist.

From: [email protected] (Tom LaStrange) Subject: Re: REPOST: Accelerators/Translations Keywords: Accelerator, case Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: ParcPlace Boulder Lines: 68 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Trevor Bourget @ignite) writes: |> In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: |> |> >I posted this a while ago and didn't receive one reply, and now we |> >have another bug report on the same subject. Can anybody help me out? |> |> The problem is that Motif uses XGrabKey to implement menu accelerators, |> and these grabs are specific about which modifiers apply. Unfortunately, |> the specification for XGrabKey doesn't allow AnyModifier to be combined |> with other modifiers, which is exactly what would be desired in this case: |> "Ctrl Any<Key>q". |> |> >In ORA Vol. 6, in the section on accelerators it says "For information |> >on how to specify translation tables see Vol. 4...", this is so you |> >know what to put for the XmNaccelerator resource. If you go to |> >Vol. 4 it says, "Likewise, if a modifier is specified, there is |> >nothing to prohibit other modifiers from being present as well. For |> >example, the translation: |> > Shift<Key>q: quit() |> >will take effect even if the Ctrl key is held down at the same time as |> >the Shift key (and the q key). |> |> This is true for accelerators and mnemonics, which are implemented using |> event handlers instead of grabs; it's not true for menu accelerators. If |> you're a Motif implementor, I'd suggest lobbying to get the Xlib semantics |> changed to support the feature I described above. Otherwise, change the |> documentation for menu accelerators to properly set the user's |> expectations, because menu accelerators are NOT the same thing as |> translations. |> |> >Is it possible to supply > 1 accelerator for a menu entry? |> |> If you mean "menu accelerator", no it's not possible. That's according to |> the definition of the XmNaccelerator resource in the XmLabel manual page. |> |> >Keep in mind when answering this question that when using Motif you |> >can't use XtInstallAccelerators(). |> |> I can't think of a reason why not. |> |> >How can you ensure that accelerators work the same independent of |> >case? What I want is Ctrl+O and Ctrl+o to both be accelerators on one |> >menu entry. I find this thread on motif accelerators absoultly amazing. If I were writing an interface to keyboard accelerators, I would have one resource called "accelerators" that took a translation table, period. I would also implement it so that programmer never has to do any work to get the accelerators installed. As soon as the end-user specified one, it would be active and automatically installed. To get multiple accelerators on a single menu item I'd do something like: *menuItem.accelerators: #override \n\ Ctrl<Key>M: fire() \n\ Shift<Key>L: fire() \n The accelerators would work exactly like translations and you would automatically see a "Ctrl M" show up in your menuItem object. Why in the world is the motif stuff so complicated with so many different special cases depending on what type of widget you're dealing with? There has to be some reason. Sorry for the political tone of this message... -- Tom LaStrange [email protected]

Subject: [rw] Is Robert Weiss the only orthodox Christian? From: <[email protected]> Organization: Brigham Young University Lines: 12 Robert, you keep making references to "orthodox" belief, and saying things like "it is held that..." (cf. "Kermit" thread). On what exact body of theology are you drawing for what you call "orthodox?" Who is that "holds that" Luke meant what you said he meant? Whenever your personal interpretation of Biblical passages is challenged, your only response seems to be that one needs merely to "look at the Bible" in order to see the truth, but what of those who see Biblical things differently from you? Are we to simply assume that you are the only one who really understands it? Just curious, -- Rick Anderson [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Ian Ameline) Subject: Facinating facts: 30 bit serial number, possibly fixed S1 and S2 Organization: C-Set/2 Development, IBM Canada Lab. Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM Lines: 106 >Hmmm. We must assume that generating the unit key U from the serial >number N rather than generating it from a randomly selected U1 and U2 >is an intentional way of assuring a "fail safe" for the government -- >U is completedly determined given S1, S2 and N. If S1 and S2 do not >change they constitute effective "master keys" (along with F), the >theft of which (or the possession of which by various authorities) >completely obviates the security of the system. However, more >interestingly, we know, for a fact that if S1 and S2 are fixed no >matter what the keyspace for U is no more than 2^30. Why not pick U1 >and U2 at random? Why this interesting restriction of they key space >if it NOT to provide an additional back door? > >I find it disturbing that at the very best my security is dependant on >approximately 30 bytes worth of information that could be written on >the back of a napkin. > >Even if S1 and S2 change periodically, the rationale behind this >restriction in the size of the keyspace seems strange if one is >assuming that the goal is security -- and makes perfect sense if the >goal is an illusion of security. > >If S1 and S2 do not change, even if they remain secret I wonder if >they can somehow be back-derived given enough unit key/serial number >pairs. We are assured that this cannot happen -- but no one >understands how Skipjack works outside of government officials and, >soon, foreign intelligence services that gain the information via >espionage. Presumably we will eventually have the information as well >-- reverse engineering gets more and more advanced every year -- but >by the time we know it may be too late. Perhaps the trusted escrow agencies can be the ones who come up with S1 and S2, and if these agencies are really trusted (ACLU & NRA is an interesting example), we can hope that they'll use some physical process to come up with truly random numbers. If the NSA comes up with the numbers, that's a trap door you could drive a truck through. >None of this makes me feel the least bit secure. Me either. It seems from the following that the CPSR is atleats starting to question this bogosity: ---------------------------------------------------------------- April 16, 1993 Washington, DC COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS CALL FOR PUBLIC DEBATE ON NEW GOVERNMENT ENCRYPTION INITIATIVE Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR) today called for the public disclosure of technical data underlying the government's newly-announced "Public Encryption Management" initiative. The new cryptography scheme was announced today by the White House and the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST), which will implement the technical specifications of the plan. A NIST spokesman acknowledged that the National Security Agency (NSA), the super- secret military intelligence agency, had actually developed the encryption technology around which the new initiative is built. According to NIST, the technical specifications and the Presidential directive establishing the plan are classified. To open the initiative to public review and debate, CPSR today filed a series of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests with key agencies, including NSA, NIST, the National Security Council and the FBI for information relating to the encryption plan. The CPSR requests are in keeping with the spirit of the Computer Security Act, which Congress passed in 1987 in order to open the development of non-military computer security standards to public scrutiny and to limit NSA's role in the creation of such standards. CPSR previously has questioned the role of NSA in developing the so-called "digital signature standard" (DSS), a communications authentication technology that NIST proposed for government-wide use in 1991. After CPSR sued NIST in a FOIA lawsuit last year, the civilian agency disclosed for the first time that NSA had, in fact, developed that security standard. NSA is due to file papers in federal court next week justifying the classification of records concerning its creation of the DSS. David Sobel, CPSR Legal Counsel, called the administration's apparent commitment to the privacy of electronic communications, as reflected in today's official statement, "a step in the right direction." But he questioned the propriety of NSA's role in the process and the apparent secrecy that has thus far shielded the development process from public scrutiny. "At a time when we are moving towards the development of a new information infrastructure, it is vital that standards designed to protect personal privacy be established openly and with full public participation. It is not appropriate for NSA -- an agency with a long tradition of secrecy and opposition to effective civilian cryptography -- to play a leading role in the development process." CPSR is a national public-interest alliance of computer industry professionals dedicated to examining the impact of technology on society. CPSR has 21 chapters in the U.S. and maintains offices in Palo Alto, California, Cambridge, Massachusetts and Washington, DC. For additional information on CPSR, call (415) 322-3778 or e-mail <[email protected]>. ----------------------------------------------- Regards, Ian Ameline.

From: [email protected] (Jim Frost) Subject: Re: Too fast Article-I.D.: armory.1qkon8$3re Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc. Lines: 56 NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202 [email protected] (wharfie) writes: >>Compare either to the Porsche 911 and you tell me which was designed > Oh, right. Only 120,000 dollar cars should be driven fast. >They drive goddamn Rabbits at 120 MPH in Europe, pal, and I reckon >a Taurus is at least as capable as a Rabbit. My whole point was not to say that the cars *couldn't* go that fast, but that they *shouldn't* go that fast. A family sedan designed to be operable at 85mph doesn't suddenly become operable at 130mph because you added some plastic aero effects, slightly wider tires, and a much larger engine. That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family sedan with a powerful engine. They didn't even bother improving the *brakes.* The Mustang is essentially the same deal as the SHO -- a big power plant stuck in a mid-size sedan, with almost no other modifications. I have real-life experience with the Mustang -- it handles like a brick (except when you're invoking oversteer, of course, something I personally avoid doing on the highway) and stopping power is inadequate even from 80mph. Lots of accelleration -- but the rest of the car is not up to par. I picked the Porsche example because they are designed with speed in mind. It didn't have to be the 911 -- it could have been the much cheaper 944 or one of several Mercedes or Audi models. All of these cars are fairly expensive -- but so are the parts that make them drivable at high speed. This should be elementary. There are a few things to keep in mind about Europe, since you brought it up. My Autobahn knowledge is admittedly second-hand, but I believe the following to be true: 1. Drivers are much better disciplined in Europe than they are here. 2. The roads comprising the Autobahn are much better designed than they are here, and usually include animal fences. This makes them far more predictable than most US highways. 3. Not all of Europe is the Autobahn. Most places in Europe have speed limits that aren't out-of-line with what we used to have in the US -- if my friends weren't lying to me they're typically not much higher than 120km/h. I strongly suspect you won't find a lot of Rabbit owners doing 120mph (nearly 200km/h) on the Autobahn, but I could be wrong. Some people have no respect for their own lives. >>You certainly haven't convinced me. > Of course not. "Speeding-is-bad. Speeding-is-illegal. >I-will-not-speed. I-love-Big-Brother." You had your mind made up >already. If you think so you sure don't pay attention to my postings. jim frost [email protected]

Subject: Re: "lds" Rick's reply From: <[email protected]> Organization: Brigham Young University Lines: 159 Robert Weiss ([email protected]) writes: #Rick Anderson replied to my letter with... # #ra> In article <[email protected]>, #ra> [email protected] (Robert Weiss) says: #ra> (...) # Just briefly, on something that you mentioned in passing. You refer to # differing interpretations of "create," and say that many Christians may # not agree. So what? That is really irrelevant. We do not base our faith # on how many people think one way or another, do we? The bottom line is # truth, regardless of popularity of opinions. It may be "irrelevant" to you and *your* personal beliefs (or should I say "bias"?), but it is relevant to me and many others. You're right, "the bottom line IS truth," independant from you or anyone else. Since you proclaim "truths" as a self-proclaimed appointee, may I ask you by what authority you do this? Because "it says so in the Bible?" --Does the Bible "say so," or is it YOU, or someone else, who interprets whether a scripture or doctrine conforms to your particular liking or "disapproval"? Excuse moi, but your line of "truths" haven't moved me one bit to persuade me that my beliefs are erroneous. Of all the "preachers" of "truth" on this net, you have struck me as a self-righteous member of the wrecking crew, with no positive message to me or other latter-day saints whatsoever. BTW, this entire discussion reminds me a lot of the things said by Jesus to the pharisees: "ye hypocrite(s) . . . ye preach about me with your lips, but your hearts are far removed from me..." # Also, I find it rather strange that in trying to persuade that created # and eternally existent are equivalent, you say "granted the Mormon # belief..." You can't grant your conclusion and then expect the point to # have been addressed. In order to reply to the issue, you have to address # and answer the point that was raised, and not just jump to the # conclusion that you grant. Sophistry. Look who's talking: "jumping to conclusions?" You wouldn't do that yourself, right? All YOU address is your own convictions, regardless whether we come up with any Biblical scriptures which supports our points of view, because you reject such interpretations without any consideration whatsoever. # # The Bible states that Lucifer was created. The Bible states that Jesus # is the creator of all. The contradiction that we have is that the LDS # belief is that Jesus and Lucifer were the same. A beautiful example of disinformation and a deliberate misrepresentation of lds doctrine. The former KGB would have loved to employ you. Jesus and lucifer are not "the same," silly, and you know it. (...) # The Mormon belief is that all are children of God. Literally. There is # nothing symbolic about it. This however, contradicts what the Bible # says. The Bible teaches that not everyone is a child of God: Correction: it may contradict would YOU think the Bible says. The Bible indeed does teach that not all are children of God in the sense that they "belong to" or follow God in His footsteps. Satan and his followers have rebelled against God, and are not "children (=followers/redeemed) of God," but it doesn't mean that they were not once created by God, but chose to separate themselves from those who chose to follow God and His plan of salvation. # # The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the # kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked "one"; # (Matthew 13:38) So? --This illustrates nicely what I just said: the children of the kingdom are those who have remained valiant in their testimony of Jesus (and have shown "works of repentance, etc.), and the children of the wicked one are those who rebelled against God and the lamb. The issue of satan's spirit-offspring (and those who followed him) has not been addressed in this and other verses you copied from your Bible. You purposefully obscured the subject by swamping your "right" with non- related scriptures. (...lots of nice scriptures deleted (NOT Robert W. copyrighted) though...) #ra> > We are told that, "And this is life eternal, that they might know #ra> > thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." #ra> > (John 17:3). Life eternal is to know the only true God. Yet the #ra> > doctrines of the LDS that I have mentioned portray a vastly #ra> > different Jesus, a Jesus that cannot be reconciled with the Jesus of #ra> > the Bible. They are so far removed from each other that to proclaim Correction: "my" Jesus is indeed different than your Jesus, and CAN be reconciled with the Jesus in the Bible. --Not your interpretation of Him, I concur, but I honestly couldn't care less. #ra> > one as being true denies the other from being true. According to the #ra> > Bible, eternal life is dependent on knowing the only true God, and #ra> > not the construct of imagination. In this single posting of yours, I've seen more "constructs of imagination" than in all of the pro-lds mails combined I have read so far in this news group. First get your lds-facts straight before you dare preaching to us about "the only true God," whom you interpret according to your own likes and dislikes, but whose image I cannot reconcile with what I know about Him myself. I guess your grandiose self-image does not allow for other faiths, believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ, but in a different way or fashion than your own. Not that it really matters, the mission and progress of the lds church will go on, boldly and nobly, and no mob or opponent can stop the work from progressing, until it has visited every continent, swept every clime, and sounded in every ear. # This is really a red herring. It doesn't address any issue raised, but # rather, it seeks to obfuscate. The fact that some groups try to read # something into the Bible, doesn't change what the Bible teaches. Sigh. "What the Bible teaches"? Or: "what the bible teaches according to Robert Weiss and co.?" I respect the former, I reject the latter without the remotest feeling that I have rejected Jesus. On the contrary. And by the way, I do respect your interpretations of the Bible, I even grant you being a Christian (following your own image of Him), as much as I am a Christian (following my own image of Him in my heart). (...) # Most of the other replies have instead hop-scotched to the issue of # Bruce McConkie and whether his views were 'official doctrine.' I don't # think that it matters if McConkie's views were canon. That is not the # issue. Were McConkie's writings indicative of Mormon belief on this # subject is the real issue. The indication from Rick is that they may # certainly be. The issue is, of course, that you love to use anything to either mis- represent or ridicule the lds church. The issue of "official doctrine" is obviously very important. McConkie's views have been controversial (e.g. "The Seven Deadly Heresies" has made me a heretic! ;-) at best, or erroneous at worst ("blacks not to receive the priesthood in this dispensation"). I respect him as someone who has made his valuable contribution to the church, but I personally do NOT rely on his personal interpretations (his book "Mormon Doctrine" is oftentimes referred to as "McConkie's Bible" in mormon circles) on mormon doctrine. I rather look to official (doctrinal) sources, and... to Hugh Nibley's books! (The last comment is an lds-insider reference.) Summarizing: McConkie was a wise man who contributed undoubtedly far more to the kingdom of God than I have, but whose views are by no means dogma or accepted doctrine, some of it clearly belongs to personal interpretation and speculation. But having said this, I find McConkie (even in his most biased and speculative moments) far more thought-provoking than the trash coming from your proverbial pen. I'm somewhat appalled that I have allowed myself to sink as low as you in this posting... ============================= Robert Weiss [email protected] Casper C. Knies [email protected] Brigham Young University [email protected] UCS Computer Facilities

From: [email protected] (Bill Mayhew) Subject: Re: receiver system Keywords: telemetry, receiver system Organization: Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine Lines: 22 One thing to consider is time division multiplexing the EMG channels to reduce the number of RF carriers you have to generate. If you multiplexed the EMG inputs at 10KHz, that would probably be sufficient for most physiology studies (you'd have ~ 330 Hz per channel sampling rate.) That level of analog multiplexing should be rather easy to accomplish. Combining a lot of RF carriers is pretty tricky to do without generating intermodulation. A system to be carried by a runner is in a fairly harsh environment and would probably be difficult to keep balanced. A commercial hand-held transciever could probably be employed with a little modification to accomodate widening the bandwidth. Obviously, this has to be done in accordance with whatever laws govern the use of transeivers in your location. -- Bill Mayhew NEOUCOM Computer Services Department Rootstown, OH 44272-9995 USA phone: 216-325-2511 [email protected] (140.220.1.1) 146.580: N8WED

From: [email protected] (Neophytos Iacovou) Subject: Re: WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE SERBIAN-GREEK CONNECTION.... Nntp-Posting-Host: gurney.cs.umn.edu Organization: University of Minnesota Lines: 26 In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Suat Kiniklioglu) writes: >First of all I have to reiterate that your terminology in describing >the events of 1974 are extremely "misleading". Cyprus is NOT occupied >by Turkish forces it was invited by Turkish Cypriots and "intervened" Oh....I see...I didn't realize this... I think that perhaps you should print flyers on this topic, and your reasons for thinking the way you do. You should then distribute them amongst the world's population. You see, I don't think there are many people who are aware of this fact. Thank you for telling us the truth. BTW: I would start by sending your flyers to each of the UN officials. Also, after you have distributed your flyers you might consider hiding. You see, I think that once more people read what you think they will have to lock you up in a mental institute; and don't think they will ever let you out. It is a strange strange world you live in. I feel sorry for you. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neophytos Iacovou University of Minnesota email: [email protected] Computer Science Department ...!rutgers!umn-cs!iacovou

From: [email protected] (David Dodell) Subject: HICN610 Medical Newsletter, Part 2/4 Reply-To: [email protected] (David Dodell) Distribution: world Organization: Stat Gateway Service, WB7TPY Lines: 708 ------------- cut here ----------------- HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 13 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Gonorrhea -- Colorado, 1985-1992 ================================ SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993 The number of reported cases of gonorrhea in Colorado increased 19.9% from 1991 to 1992 after declining steadily during the 1980s. In comparison, in the United States, reported cases of gonorrhea in 1992 continued an overall decreasing trend (1). This report summarizes an analysis of the increase in gonorrhea in Colorado in 1992 and characterizes trends in the occurrence of this disease from 1985 through 1992. In 1992, 4679 cases of gonorrhea were reported to the Colorado Department of Health (CDH) compared with 3901 cases reported in 1991. During 1992, reported cases increased 22.7% and 17.5% among females and males, respectively (Table 1). Similar increases occurred among blacks, whites, and Hispanics (15.6%, 15.1%, and 15.9%, respectively); however, the number of reported cases with race not specified increased 88% from 1991 to 1992 and constituted 9.7% of all reported cases in 1992. Although the largest proportional increases by age groups occurred among persons aged 35-44 years (80.4%) and greater than or equal to 45 years (87.7%), these age groups accounted for only 11.0% of all reported cases in 1992. Persons in the 15-19-year age group accounted for the largest number of reported cases of gonorrhea during 1992 and the highest age group-specific rate (639 per 100,000). Reported cases of gonorrhea increased 32.9% in the five-county Denver metropolitan area (1990 population: 1,629,466) but decreased elsewhere in the state (Table 1). Half the cases of gonorrhea in the Denver metropolitan area occurred in 8.4% (34) of the census tracts; these represent neighborhoods considered by sexually transmitted diseases (STDs)/acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) field staff to be the focus of gang and drug activity. When compared with 1991, the number of gonorrhea cases diagnosed among men in the Denver Metro Health Clinic (DMHC, the primary public STD clinic in the Denver metropolitan area) increased 33% in 1992, and the number of visits by males to the clinic increased 2.4%. Concurrently, the number of cases diagnosed among women increased by 1%. Among self-identified heterosexual men, the number of gonorrhea cases diagnosed at DMHC increased 33% and comprised 94% of all cases diagnosed in males, while the number of cases diagnosed among self-identified homosexual men remained low (71 and 74 in 1991 and 1992, respectively). Four selected laboratories in the metropolitan Denver area (i.e., HMO, university hospital, nonprofit family planning, and commercial) were contacted to determine whether gonorrhea culture-positivity rates increased. Gonorrhea culture-positivity rates in three of four laboratories contacted increased 23%-33% from 1991 to 1992, while the rate was virtually unchanged in the fourth (i.e., nonprofit family planning). From 1985 through 1991, reported cases of gonorrhea among whites and Hispanics in Colorado decreased; in comparison, reported cases among blacks HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 14 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 increased since 1988 (Figure 1). During 1988-1992, the population in Colorado increased 9.9% for blacks, 9.8% for Hispanics, and 4.5% for whites. In 1992, the gonorrhea rate for blacks (1935 per 100,000 persons) was 57 times that for whites (34 per 100,000) and 12 times that for Hispanics (156 per 100,000) (Table 1). Among black females, reported cases of gonorrhea increased from 1988 through 1992 in the 15-19-year age group; among black males, cases increased from 1989 through 1992 in both the 15-19-and 20-24-year age groups. Reported by: KA Gershman, MD, JM Finn, NE Spencer, MSPH, STD/AIDS Program; RE Hoffman, MD, State Epidemiologist, Colorado Dept of Health. JM Douglas, MD, Denver Dept of Health and Hospitals. Surveillance and Information Systems Br, Div of Sexually Transmitted Diseases and HIV Prevention, National Center for Prevention Svcs, CDC. Editorial Note: The increase in reported gonorrhea cases in Colorado in 1992 may represent an overall increase in the occurrence of this disease or more complete reporting stimulated by visitations to laboratories by CDH surveillance staff during 1991-1992. The increases in confirmed gonorrhea cases at DMHC and in culture-positivity rates in three of four laboratories suggest a real increase in gonorrhea rather than a reporting artifact. However, the stable culture-positivity rate in the nonprofit family planning laboratory (which serves a network of clinics statewide) indicates that the gonorrhea increase did not uniformly affect all segments of the population. One possible explanation for the increased occurrence of gonorrhea in Colorado may be gang- and drug-related sexual behavior, as implicated in a recent outbreak of drug-resistant gonorrhea and other STDs in Colorado Springs (2). Although the high morbidity census tracts in the Denver metropolitan area coincide with areas of gang and drug activity, this hypothesis requires further assessment. To examine the possible role of drug use -- implicated previously as a factor contributing to the national increase in syphilis (3-6) -- the CDH STD/AIDS program is collecting information from all persons in whom gonorrhea is diagnosed regarding drug use, exchange of sex for money or drugs, and gang affiliation. The gonorrhea rate for blacks in Colorado substantially exceeds the national health objective for the year 2000 (1300 per 100,000) (objective 19.1a) (7). Race is likely a risk marker rather than a risk factor for gonorrhea and other STDs. Risk markers may be useful for identifying groups at greatest risk for STDs and for targeting prevention efforts. Moreover, race- specific variation in STD rates may reflect differences in factors such as socioeconomic status, access to medical care, and high-risk behaviors. In response to the increased occurrence of gonorrhea in Colorado, interventions initiated by the CDH STD/AIDS program include 1) targeting partner notification in the Denver metropolitan area to persons in groups at increased risk (e.g., 15-19-year-old black females and 20-24-year-old black males); 2) implementing a media campaign (e.g., public service radio HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 15 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 announcements, signs on city buses, newspaper advertisements, and posters in schools and clinics) to promote awareness of STD risk and prevention targeted primarily at high-risk groups, and 3) developing teams of peer educators to perform educational outreach in high-risk neighborhoods. The educational interventions are being developed and implemented with the assistance of members of the target groups and with input from a forum of community leaders and health-care providers. References 1. CDC. Table II. Cases of selected notifiable diseases, United States, weeks ending December 26, 1992, and December 28, 1991 (52nd week). MMWR 1993;41:975. 2. CDC. Gang-related outbreak of penicillinase-producing Neisseria gonorrhoeae and other sexually transmitted diseases -- Colorado Springs, Colorado, 1989- 1991. MMWR 1993;42:25-8. 3. CDC. Relationship of syphilis to drug use and prostitution -- Connecticut and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. MMWR 1988;37:755-8, 764. 4. Rolfs RT, Goldberg M, Sharrar RG. Risk factors for syphilis: cocaine use and prostitution. Am J Public Health 1990;80:853-7. 5. Andrus JK, Fleming DW, Harger DR, et al. Partner notification: can it control epidemic syphilis? Ann Intern Med 1990;112:539-43. 6. Gershman KA, Rolfs RT. Diverging gonorrhea and syphilis trends in the 1980s: are they real? Am J Public Health 1991;81:1263-7. 7. Public Health Service. Healthy people 2000: national health promotion and disease prevention objectives--full report, with commentary. Washington, DC: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 1991; DHHS publication no. (PHS)91-50212. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 16 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Effectiveness in Disease and Injury Prevention Impact of Adult Safety-Belt Use on Restraint Use Among Children less than 11 Years of Age -- Selected States, 1988 and 1989 ====================================================== SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993 Motor-vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death among children and young adults in the United States and account for more than 1 million years of potential life lost before age 65 annually (1). Child safety seats and safety belts can substantially reduce this loss (2). From 1977 through 1985, all 50 states passed legislation requiring the use of child safety seats or safety belts for children. Although these laws reduce injuries to young children by an estimated 8%-59% (3,4), motor-vehicle crash-related injuries remain a major cause of disability and death among U.S. children (1), while the use of occupant restraints among children decreases inversely with age (84% usage for those aged 0-4 years; 57%, aged 5-11 years; and 29%, aged 12-18 years) (5). In addition, parents who do not use safety belts themselves are less likely to use restraints for their children (6). To characterize the association between adult safety-belt use and adult-reported consistent use of occupant restraints for the youngest child aged less than 11 years within a household, CDC analyzed data obtained from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) during 1988 and 1989. This report summarizes the findings from this study. Data were available for 20,905 respondents aged greater than or equal to 18 years in 11 states * that participated in BRFSS -- a population-based, random-digit-dialed telephone survey -- and administered a standard Injury Control and Child Safety Module developed by CDC. Of these respondents, 5499 (26%) had a child aged less than 11 years in their household. Each respondent was asked to specify the child's age and the frequency of restraint use for that child. The two categories of child restraint and adult safety-belt use in this analysis were 1) consistent use (i.e., always buckle up) and 2) less than consistent use (i.e., almost always, sometimes, rarely, or never buckle up). Data were weighted to provide estimates representative of each state. Software for Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN) (7) was used to calculate point estimates and confidence intervals. Statistically significant differences were defined by p values of less than 0.05. Each of the 11 states had some type of child restraint law. Of these, six (Arizona, Kentucky, Maine, Nebraska, Rhode Island, and West Virginia) had no law requiring adults to use safety belts; four (Idaho, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Washington) had a secondary enforcement mandatory safety-belt law (i.e., a vehicle had to be stopped for a traffic violation before a citation for nonuse of safety belts could be issued); and one state (New York) had a primary enforcement mandatory safety-belt law (i.e., vehicles could be stopped for a safety-belt law violation alone). In nine states, child-passenger protection HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 17 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 laws included all children aged less than 5 years, but the other two states used both age and size of the child as criteria for mandatory restraint use. The analysis in this report subgrouped states into 1) those having a law requiring adult safety-belt use (law states), and 2) those without such a law (no-law states). Overall, 21% of children aged less than 11 years reportedly were not consistently restrained during automobile travel. Both child restraint use and adult restraint use were significantly higher (p less than 0.05, chi-square test) in law states than in no-law states (81.1% versus 74.3% and 58.7% versus 43.2%, respectively). High rates of restraint use for children aged less than or equal to 1 year were reported by both adults indicating consistent and less than consistent safety-belt use (Figure 1). Adults with consistent use reported high rates of child-occupant restraint use regardless of the child's age (range: 95.5% for 1-year-olds to 84.7% for 10-year-olds). In comparison, for adults reporting less than consistent safety-belt use, the rate of child- occupant restraint use declined sharply by the age of the child (range: 93.1% for 1-year-olds to 28.8% for 10-year-olds). When comparing children of consistent adult safety-belt users with children of less than consistent adult safety-belt users, 95% confidence intervals overlap for the two youngest age groups (i.e., aged less than 1 and 1 year). Reported child-occupant restraint use in law states generally exceeded that in no-law states, regardless of age of child (Table 1). In addition, higher adult educational attainment was significantly associated with increased restraint use for children, a factor that has also been associated with increased adult safety-belt use (8). Reported by: National Center for Injury Prevention and Control; National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, CDC. Editorial Note: The findings in this report are consistent with others indicating that adults who do not use safety belts themselves are less likely to employ occupant restraints for their children (6,9). Because these nonbelted adults are at increased risk of crashing and more likely to exhibit other risk-taking behaviors, children traveling with them may be at greater risk for motor-vehicle injury (10). Educational attainment of adult respondents was inversely associated with child restraint use in this report. Accordingly, occupant-protection programs should be promoted among parents with low educational attainment. Because low educational attainment is often associated with low socioeconomic status, such programs should be offered to adults through health-care facilities that serve low-income communities or through federal programs (i.e., Head Start) that are directed at parents with young children. Injury-prevention programs emphasize restraining young children. In addition, however, efforts must be intensified to protect child occupants as HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 18 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 they become older. Parents, especially those with low educational attainment, those who do not consistently wear safety belts, and those from states that do not have mandatory safety-belt use laws, should be encouraged to wear safety belts and to protect their children by using approved child safety seats and safety belts. Finally, the increased use of restraints among children may increase their likelihood of using safety belts when they become teenagers -- the age group characterized by the lowest rate of safety-belt use and the highest rate of fatal crashes (5). References 1. CDC. Childhood injuries in the United States. Am J Dis Child 1990;144:627- 46. 2. Partyka SC. Papers on child restraints: effectiveness and use. Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 1988; report no. DOT-HS-807-286. 3. Guerin D, MacKinnon D. An assessment of the California child passenger restraint requirement. Am J Public Health 1985;75:142-4. 4. Hall W, Orr B, Suttles D, et al. Progress report on increasing child restraint usage through local education and distribution programs. Chapel Hill, North Carolina: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Highway Safety Research Center, 1983. 5. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Occupant protection trends in 19 cities. Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 1991. 6. Wagenaar AC, Molnar LJ, Margolis LH. Characteristics of child safety seat users. Accid Anal Prev 1988;20:311-22. 7. Shah BV, Barnwell BG, Hunt PN, LaVange LM. Software for Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN) version 5.50 Software documentation. Research Triangle Park, North Carolina: Research Triangle Institute, 1991. 8. Lund AK. Voluntary seat belt use among U.S. drivers: geographic, socioeconomic and demographic variation. Accid Anal Prev 1986;18:43-50. 9. Margolis LH, Wagenaar AC, Molnar LJ. Use and misuse of automobile child restraint devices. Am J Dis Child 1992;146:361-6. 10. Hunter WW, Stutts JC, Stewart JR, Rodgman EA. Characteristics of seatbelt users and non-users in a state with a mandatory use law. Health Education HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 19 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Research 1990;5:161-73. * Arizona, Idaho, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Nebraska, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Washington, and West Virginia. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 20 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Publication of CDC Surveillance Summaries ========================================= SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993 Since 1983, CDC has published the CDC Surveillance Summaries under separate cover as part of the MMWR series. Each report published in the CDC Surveillance Summaries focuses on public health surveillance; surveillance findings are reported for a broad range of risk factors and health conditions. Summaries for each of the reports published in the most recent (March 19, 1993) issue of the CDC Surveillance Summaries (1) are provided below. All subscribers to MMWR receive the CDC Surveillance Summaries, as well as the MMWR Recommendations and Reports, as part of their subscriptions. SURVEILLANCE FOR AND COMPARISON OF BIRTH DEFECT PREVALENCES IN TWO GEOGRAPHIC AREAS -- UNITED STATES, 1983-88 Problem/Condition: CDC and some states have developed surveillance systems to monitor the birth prevalence of major defects. Reporting Period Covered: This report covers birth defects surveillance in metropolitan Atlanta, Georgia, and selected jurisdictions in California for the years 1983-1988. Description of System: The California Birth Defects Monitoring Program and the Metropolitan Atlanta Congenital Defects Program are two population- based surveillance systems that employ similar data collection methods. The prevalence estimates for 44 diagnostic categories were based on data for 1983- 1988 for 639,837 births in California and 152,970 births in metropolitan Atlanta. The prevalences in the two areas were compared, adjusting for race, sex, and maternal age by using Poisson regression. Results: Regional differences in the prevalence of aortic stenosis, fetal alcohol syndrome, hip dislocation/dysplasia, microcephalus, obstruction of the kidney/ureter, and scoliosis/lordosis may be attributable to general diagnostic variability. However, differences in the prevalences of arm/hand limb reduction, encephalocele, spina bifida, or trisomy 21 (Down syndrome) are probably not attributable to differences in ascertainment, because these defects are relatively easy to diagnose. Interpretation: Regional differences in prenatal diagnosis and pregnancy termination may affect prevalences of trisomy 21 and spina bifida. However, the reason for differences in arm/hand reduction is unknown, but may be related to variability in environmental exposure, heterogeneity in the gene pool, or random variation. Actions Taken: Because of the similarities of these data bases, several collaborative studies are being implemented. In particular, the differences in the birth prevalence of spina bifida and Down syndrome will focus attention on the impact of prenatal diagnosis. Authors: Jane Schulman, Ph.D., Nancy HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 21 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Jensvold, M.P.H, Gary M. Shaw, Dr.P.H., California Birth Defects Monitoring Program, March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation. Larry D. Edmonds, M.S.P.H., Anne B. McClearn, Division of Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, National Center for Environmental Health, CDC. INFLUENZA -- UNITED STATES, 1988-89 Problem/Condition: CDC monitors the emergence and spread of new influenza virus variants and the impact of influenza on morbidity and mortality annually from October through May. Reporting Period Covered: This report covers U.S. influenza surveillance conducted from October 1988 through May 1989. Description of System: Weekly reports from the vital statistics offices of 121 cities provided an index of influenza's impact on mortality; 58 WHO collaborating laboratories reported weekly identification of influenza viruses; weekly morbidity reports were received both from the state and territorial epidemiologists and from 153 sentinel family practice physicians. Nonsystematic reports of outbreaks and unusual illnesses were received throughout the year. Results: During the 1988-89 influenza season, influenza A(H1N1) and B viruses were identified in the United States with essentially equal frequency overall, although both regional and temporal patterns of predominance shifted over the course of the season. Throughout the season increases in the indices of influenza morbidity in regions where influenza A(H1N1) predominated were similar to increases in regions where influenza B predominated. Only 7% of identified viruses were influenza A(H3N2), but isolations of this subtype increased as the season waned, and it subsequently predominated during the 1989-90 season. During the 1988-89 season outbreaks in nursing homes were reported in association with influenza B and A(H3N2) but not influenza A(H1N1). Interpretation: The alternating temporal and geographic predominance of influenza strains A(H1N1) and B during the 1988-89 season emphasizes the importance of continual attention to regional viral strain surveillance, since amantadine is effective only for treatment and prophylaxis of influenza A. Actions Taken: Weekly interim analyses of surveillance data produced throughout the season allow physicians and public health officials to make informed choices regarding appropriate use of amantadine. CDC's annual surveillance allows the observed viral variants to be assessed as candidates for inclusion as components in vaccines used in subsequent influenza seasons. Authors: Louisa E. Chapman, M.D., M.S.P.H., Epidemiology Activity, Office of the Director, Division of Viral and Rickettsial Diseases, National Center for Infectious Diseases; Margaret A. Tipple, M.D., Division of Quarantine, National Center for Prevention Services, CDC. Suzanne Gaventa Folger, M.P.H., Health Investigations Branch, Division of Health Studies, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. Maurice Harmon, Ph.D., Connaught HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 22 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Laboratories, Pasteur-Mirieux Company, Swiftwater, Pennsylvania. Alan P. Kendal, Ph.D., European Regional Office, World Health Organization, Copenhagen, Denmark. Nancy J. Cox, Ph.D., Influenza Branch, Division of Viral and Rickettsial Diseases, National Center for Infectious Diseases; Lawrence B. Schonberger, M.D., M.P.H., Epidemiology Activity, Office of the Director, Division of Viral and Rickettsial Diseases, National Center for Infectious Diseases, CDC. Reference 1. CDC. CDC surveillance summaries (March 19). MMWR 1993;42(no. SS-1). HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 23 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Clinical Research News :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Clinical Research News for Arizona Physicians Vol. 4, No. 4, April 1993 Tucson, Arizona Published monthly by the Office of Public Affairs at The University of Arizona Health Sciences Center. Copyright 1993, The University of Arizona High Tech Assisted Reproductive Technologies Following the birth of the first in vitro fertilization-embryo transfer (IVF- ET) baby in 1978, a host of assisted reproductive technologies have been developed that include IVF-ET, gamete intrafallopian tube transfer (GIFT), embryo cryopreservation (freezing) and gamete micromanipulation. Together, these technologies are referred to as the high-tech assisted reproductive technology (ART) procedures. Ovulation induction, sperm insemination and surgery for tubal disease and/or pathology still are the mainstays of the therapies available for infertility management. However, when these fail, it almost always is appropriate to proceed with one of the ART procedures. Therefore, in addition to a comprehensive basic and general infertility service at The University of Arizona Center for Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility, there is a program of Assisted Reproduction that specializes in ART procedures. This program serves as a tertiary provider for those patients in the state of Arizona whose infertility problems cannot be resolved by the traditional therapies. The following article (on back) describes the ART procedures available in our Center, clarifies appropriate applications for each, and considers the realistic expectations for their success. Procedures included are: o in vitro o fertilization - embryo transfer (IVF-ET), gamete intrafallopian tube transfer o (GIFT), cryopreservation of human embryos and gamete micromanipulation. This article also considers ongoing research in our program that is directed towards improved success of these technologies. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 24 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Future Areas of Research In addition to ongoing research that is directed exclusively toward the management of infertile couples, we are developing the technology to assist couples who are at risk for producing embryos with a serious hereditary disease. This technology involves biopsying the preimplantation human embryo and then subjecting the biopsied cells to genetic analysis using either DNA amplification or fluorescent in situ hybridization. There are recent reports of the successful application of DNA amplification by other centers, for example, for diagnosis of the genes for cystic fibrosis and hemophilia. We hope to apply and further focus fluorescent in situ hybridization technology for probing the X chromosome, the identification of which will provide a scientific basis for counselling patients who exhibit sex-linked disorders. The considerable clinical application of such technology lies in the fact that it circumvents the need for prenatal diagnosis, in addition to the possibility of a subsequent termination of affected fetuses, in order to avoid the birth of affected children. Catherine Racowsky, Ph.D. Associate Professor and Director of Research Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology College of Medicine University of Arizona Tucson, Arizona Applications, Success Rates and Advances for the Management of Infertility The following are the ART procedures available at The University of Arizona Center for Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility. In Vitro Fertilization - Embryo Transfer is the core ART procedure of our Assisted Reproduction Program. This procedure involves retrieval of unfertilized eggs from the ovary, their insemination in vitro in a dish, and the culture of resultant embryos for 1 or 2 days, before they are transferred to the patient's uterus. All cultures are maintained in an incubator under strictly controlled atmospheric and temperature conditions. Before being processed for use in insemination, semen samples are evaluated in our andrology laboratory using both subjective light microscopy and computer- HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 25 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 assisted semen analyses. To ensure an adequate number of eggs with which to perform IVF-ET, or indeed, GIFT, follicular development is typically stimulated, with gonadotropins (perganol, metrodin), gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH, Factrel, lutrepulse) and/or GnRH analogues (lupron, Depo lupron, synarel). Occasionally, however, IVF-ET is accomplished with eggs obtained in non-stimulated cycles. While some programs utilize laparoscopic egg retrieval in the operating room with the patient under general anesthesia, we undertake the less costly approach of ultrasound-guided retrieval in our Infertility Unit, with the patient sedated. Couples who resort to IVF-ET exhibit such pathologies as tubal deficiencies, ovulatory dysfunction, endometriosis, and/or mild forms of male factor infertility. According to the United States IVF Registry, the overall success rate for IVF-ET nationwide has stabilized at about 14 percent per cycle. Results from our program, involving 86 patients who have undergone 173 IVF-ET cycles, reflect a comparable success rate. Nevertheless, the overall incidence of success with this procedure is disconcertingly low and emphasizes the need to address those physiological factors that limit achievement of a higher percentage of pregnancies. Well recognized predictors of outcome include patient age, response to exogenous ovarian stimulation, quality of sperm and number of repeated IVF-ET cycle attempts. However, among these, age is the single most significant determinant of conception. Therefore, it is critical that such patients are referred to an Assisted Reproduction Program at the earliest opportunity following failure of traditional therapies. The underlying basis for the negative effect of age on fertility has not been clearly delineated beyond recognition that: 1) the number of eggs available for retrieval declines markedly with age; 2) fertilization rates significantly decrease in eggs retrieved from patients who are over 40 years; and 3) provided the appropriate hormonal background is present, age is unrelated to uterine competency to sustain pregnancy. Ongoing research in our Center, therefore, is investigating physiological changes in the egg that may be impacted by age. We have determined that more than 50 percent of eggs that fail to fertilize in vitro are chromosomally abnormal, and that a significant proportion of these abnormalities are accountable to patient age. Currently, the only recourse for such patients is to use eggs obtained from a donor. Our program has initiated recruitment of volunteer egg donors to satisfy the needs of a list of recipients interested in this form of therapy. GIFT - This high-tech ART procedure is performed in the operating room, usually with the use of a laparoscope and, in contrast to IVF-ET, involves introducing sperm and freshly retrieved eggs into the lumen of the Fallopian tube (an average of 3 eggs/tube). Under these circumstances, fertilization occurs in vivo and, if excess eggs are retrieved, the remainder undergo IVF, with subsequent options for embryo transfer in that cycle, or freezing for transfer in a subsequent cycle. This ART procedure is applied to cases in HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 26 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 which there is at least one patent Fallopian tube but the couple has such pathologies as ovulatory dysfunction, endometriosis, male factor infertility and/or idiopathic infertility. The data reported in the United States IVF Registry for 1985 through 1990 indicate that the overall success rate with GIFT is higher than that obtained with the IVF-ET technique (range of clinical pregnancies for GIFT is 24 to 36 percent and for IVF-ET 14 to 18 percent). In view of this fact, one might expect more patients to be treated with GIFT than IVF-ET. However, in our program we have taken into account three basic concerns which, while substantially reducing the number of GIFT cycles performed, benefit the patient. These concerns are: 1) the increased costs associated with performing a procedure in the operating room; 2) the risks, albeit minimal, of undergoing general anesthesia; and 3) the considerable benefits to be accrued from obtaining direct information on the quality and fertilizability of the eggs, and the developmental competency of resultant embryos. The increased success with GIFT undoubtedly reflects the artificial environment provided by the laboratory in the IVF-ET procedure. Between January 1, 1991, and December 31, 1992, we have performed a total of 12 GIFT cycles, with an overall success rate of 20 percent. Embryo cryopreservation, or freezing, is applied in our program when embryos result from residual GIFT eggs or from non-transferred IVF embryos. This procedure not only provides patients with a subsequent opportunity for success at much reduced costs, but also circumvents the legal and ethical issues relating to disposal of supernumerary embryos. Therefore, as stipulated by the American Fertility Society ethical guidelines for ART programs, from both a practical and an ethical standpoint, all Assisted Reproduction programs should have the capability of cryopreserving human embrys. Gamete Micromanipulation - This ART procedure, which is still very new, is applied to couples who are unaccepting of insemination with donor semen but who have severe male factor infertility (less than 10 million sperm/ml in combination with fewer than 20 perccent motile sperm, and/or less than 10 percent sperm with normal morphology). We are currently developing the procedure of sub-zonal insertion (SZI), which entails injecting sperm under the coating around the egg, the barrier normally penetrated by the sperm through enzymatic digestion. Available data from SZI programs world-wide indicate that only 5 to 10 percent of SZI cycles result in a pregnancy. This statistic undoubtedly relates to limitations imposed by abnormalities inherent in the sperm. Therefore, we are currently focusing on the development of improved techniques for the recognition and selection of sperm chosen for manipulation. Such efforts are unquestionably worthwhile in view of the fact that this technology offers the only realistic opportunity for severe male factor patients to establish conception. Catherine Racowsky, Ph.D. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 27 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Associate Professor and Director of Research Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology College of Medicine --------- end of part 2 ------------ --- Internet: [email protected] FAX: +1 (602) 451-1165 Bitnet: ATW1H@ASUACAD FidoNet=> 1:114/15 Amateur Packet ax25: [email protected]

From: [email protected] (C. H. Lochmuller) Subject: Re: Dillon puts foot in mouth... Lines: 21 # So the Blue PRess suggests that we bankrupt HCI by requesting information # and the concern by list members is that HCI will claim everyone that calls # as a new member. I think they will. I also think they will claim a new # MANDATE to ban all firearms from the solar system wheter we call and ask for # information or not! # # On the other hand, with due respect to the Editor of the Blue PRess, just # becaue Mike makes damned good presses, dies, powder scales, and got tired of # Lee's atacks DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY DILLON FAN FOLLOWS WHAT MIKE CALLS FOR # LIKE HE WAS KARESH AND WE WERE TRANSDILLIDIANS! # # Our local State Assemblyman has called for a complete ban on all non-bolt # action military rifles and all assault weapons, a 7 day wait for purchase # permits { it currently takes 10 to 14 working days here in NC } and one # permit/year. The flood of calls he got was 7 for and 3 against. Guess who # called supporting his move? Guess what ILA is doing? Right? # # CHL #

Subject: Re: Video in/out From: [email protected] Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock Nntp-Posting-Host: athena.ualr.edu Lines: 40 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Marta Lyall) writes: > Organization: "A World of Information at your Fingertips" > Keywords: > > In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Craig S. Williamson) writes: >> >>I'm getting ready to buy a multimedia workstation and would like a little >>advice. I need a graphics card that will do video in and out under windows. >>I was originally thinking of a Targa+ but that doesn't work under Windows. >>What cards should I be looking into? >> >>Thanks, >>Craig >> >>-- >> "To forgive is divine, to be >>-Craig Williamson an airhead is human." >> [email protected] -Balki Bartokomas >> [email protected] (home) Perfect Strangers > > > Craig, > > You should still consider the Targa+. I run windows 3.1 on it all the > time at work and it works fine. I think all you need is the right > driver. > > Josh West > email: [email protected] > AT&T also puts out two new products for windows, Model numbers elude me now, a 15 bit video board with framegrabber and a 16bit with same. Yesterday I was looking at a product at a local Software ETC store. Media Vision makes a 15bit (32,768 color) frame capture board that is stand alone and doesnot use the feature connector on your existing video card. It claims upto 30 fps live capture as well as single frame from either composite NTSC or s-video in and out. Don Lewis <[email protected]>

From: [email protected] (Mats Andtbacka) Subject: Re: An Anecdote about Islam In-Reply-To: [email protected]'s message of 5 Apr 93 16:49:14 GMT Organization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc. X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24 Lines: 24 In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: [deletia] > I don't understand the point of this petty sarcasm. It is a basic > principle of Islam that if one is born muslim or one says "I testify > that there is no god but God and Mohammad is a prophet of God" that, > so long as one does not explicitly reject Islam by word then one _must_ > be considered muslim by all muslims. So the phenomenon you're attempting > to make into a general rule or psychology is a direct odds with basic > Islamic principles. If you want to attack Islam you could do better than > than to argue against something that Islam explicitly contradicts. In the deletions somewhere, it mentioned something about chopping off of hands being a punishment for theft in Saudi Arabia. Assuming this is so (I wouldn't know), and assuming it is done by people fitting your requirement for "muslim" (which I find highly likely), then would you please try to convince Bobby Mozumder that muslims chop people's hands off? Come back when you've succeeded. -- Disclaimer? "It's great to be young and insane!"

From: [email protected] (Greg Woods) Subject: Re: Rockies spoon-feed game to Mets Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO Lines: 18 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Donald P Boell) writes: >Is it just me, or does Bichette look totally lost in the outfield? He's been playing horrible defense. Baylor said after Wednesday's game that he wanted to shake up the lineup a little, because Bichette has been having a rough time defensively and Jerald Clark has not been hitting. He was true to his word; I went to Thursday's game and Gerald Young was in right and Daryl Boston (who has a very hot bat) was in left. Baylor was careful to say though that he didn't necessarily mean for these changes to be permanent but he wanted to give these other two a shot while Clark and Bichette were not playing well. In defense of Bichette, it looks like right field in Mile High Stadium is a bitch to play. Some of the visiting outfielders have been having some problems too (although Bobby Bonilla made a great catch crashing into the wall to rob Daryl Boston of an extra base hit in Thursday's game) --Greg

From: [email protected] (Bob Ames) Subject: UNIX PC Software for sale Organization: CRL Internet Dialup Access (415-389-UNIX login: guest) Lines: 41 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: crl.com Greetings: Here is a list of items for the 3B1 which I am selling: dBase III - Full dBase III multiuser Development/Runtime for 3B1! Microsoft Basic Interpreter - Gives 2.5 Megabytes RAM available! Microsoft Word - Full featured mouse-based multiuser word-processor. Microsoft MultiPlan - Nice multiuser spreadsheet program. GSS-Chart - Nice graphical program for creating business charts. LPI-C - A robust C compiler. I'll throw in LPI-DEBUG:single-step,alter vars. AT&T Electronic Mail - Very nice Office-based front end to mail. I'll take $500 or best offer for the whole bunch. I bought all of these new in 1985, and paid over $2,000 for these excellent programs. I'd rather sell them together, but don't hesitate to make me an offer for one. I'd consider possible trades. I'm interested in the following 3b1 Hardware: Ethernet Card with or without Software Tape Backup External Expansion Unit Upgraded P5.1 motherboard (Or just info on who can do the P5.1 upgrades) ICUS 2nd hard drive upgrade kit AT&T 513bct, 610, 615, or 4415 terminals with the UNIXPC-style keyboard Make me an offer. Bob Ames [email protected] 707-546-0669 PS: I can get UNIX PCs with 40M Drives and 1M Motherboards loaded with 3.51m, cnews, smail, trn, rn, elm, nethack, gzip, HDB, and a couple other things for about $550 each plus shipping. Let me know if you're interested. PPS: Priam D519 150M Hard Drives (Exactly same as Maxtor 2190, but faster) are on sale for $280 thru a vendor in LA (Number not handy, write for info) This is a VERY good price for these drives, the largest, fastest HDs available for the UNIX PC. (Note, to fully use the entire 150M, you'll need the P5.1 motherboard upgrade [WHO DOES THESE?], and a WD2010)

From: [email protected] (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Freezing and Riding Organization: University College of Wales, Aberystwyth Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.124.112.30 >every spec of alertness to keep from getting squished, otherwise it's not >only dangerous, it's unpleasant. The same goes for cold and fatigue, as I >once took a half hour nap at a gas station to insure that I would make it Yeah, hypothermia is MUCH more detrimemtal to your judgement and reactions than people realise. I wish I had the patience to stop when I should. One day I'll pay for it.... If you begin to shiver - STOP and warm up thoroughly. If you leave it till the shivering stops, this doesnt mean you're OK again, it means you're a danger to yourself and everyone else on the road - your brain and body are working about as fast as a tree grows. You will not realise this yourself till you hit something. The next stage is passing out. This usually means falling off.

From: [email protected] (Anssi Saari) Subject: Re: 80386 and 80486: What's the difference? Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Computing Centre Lines: 38 Distribution: inet NNTP-Posting-Host: ee.tut.fi In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Lars Joedal) writes: >Except from clock frequency, what are the differences between the >various types of 386 and 486 processors? >The following is a list with what I know (or perhaps only what I >think I know!). Can anybody extend & correct? >80386: True 32 bit processor. > (cache?) No cache. >80386SX: Emulates 80386 with a 16 bit bus. >80486: True 32 bit processor. > Internal mathematical coprocessor (Correct?) Correct. > Internal cache (Correct? How big?) 8kB. > (extended instruction set in any way?) Was it six instructions? >80486SX: Probably sorta like 80486... 80486DX without the mathematical coprocessor (FPU). >80486DX: Probably sorta like 80386... Actually, the 80486 you described above is 80486DX. (There is no separate 80486 nor 80386, either). This is for Intel processors. Does anyone have a complete list with Cyrix and Ibm products? Anssi -- Anssi Saari [email protected] Tampere University of Technology Finland, Europe

From: [email protected] (Scott LeDoux) Subject: Icon Animation Lines: 17 Reply-To: [email protected] (Scott LeDoux) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation -- CSC/Colorado Srpings Hi Folks. As part of my self-introduction to X I've been trying to do some simple icon animation (sort of like icondoit from mswindows). Changing your own applications icon is fairly simple: If you have a widget ID you can just XtSetValues on XtNiconifyPixmap (or whatever) and you're done. Alternately you can set window manager hints. These methods don't seem to work with icons which your application doesn't specifically own. In my situation I have to change the icon of random windows sitting there in my icon box so my question is: Given a window-id, how do you change the icon pixure ? A working example would be very much appreciated. If it makes any difference, I'm using motif 1.1 on VMS T6.0-5KE. Thanks - Scott :)

From: [email protected] (David Joslin) Subject: Apology to Jim Meritt (Was: Silence is concurance) Distribution: usa Organization: Intelligent Systems Program Lines: 39 [email protected] (James Meritt) writes: >}So stop dodging the question. What is hypocritical about my >}criticizing bad arguments, given that I do this both when I agree >}with the conclusion and when I disagree with the conclusion? > >You are the one who has claimed to possess the fruits of precognition, >telepathy, and telempathy. Divine it yourself. Another dodge. Oh well. I'm no match for your amazing repertoire of red herrings and smoke screens. You asked for an apology. I'm not going to apologize for pointing out that your straw-man argument was a straw-man argument. Nor for saying that your list of "bible contradictions" shows such low standards of scholarship that it should be an embarrassment to anti-inerrantists, just as Josh McDowell should be an embarrassment to the fundies. Nor for objecting various times to your taking quotes out of context. Nor for pointing out that "they do it too" is not an excuse. Nor for calling your red herrings and smoke screens what they are. I'm still not sure why you think I'm a hypocrite. It's true that I haven't responded to any of Robert Weiss' articles, which may be due in part to the fact that I almost never read his articles. But I have responded to both you and Frank DeCenso (a fundie/inerrantist.) Both you and Frank have taken quotes out of context, and I've objected to both of you doing so. I've criticized bad arguments both when they were yours and I agreed with the conclusion (that the Bible is not inerrant), and when they were Frank's and I disagreed with the conclusion. I've criticized both you and Frank for evading questions, and for trying to "explain me away" without addressing the objections I raise (you by accusing me of being hypocritical and irrational, Frank by accusing me of being motivated by a desire to attack the Bible.) I don't see that any of this is hypocritical, nor do I apologize for it. I do apologize, however, for having offended you in any other way. Happy now? dj

From: [email protected] (Walter G. Seefeld) Subject: SyQuest internal 44 drive with 8 cartridges: sale or trade Summary: Will trade 350Mb for ~300Mb IDE, or sell for $450 Nntp-Posting-Host: isis.msstate.edu Organization: Mississippi State University Distribution: na Lines: 21 This drive is less than one year old. The cartridges have all been bought since then. All is in excellent condition and still under warranty. Due to a change in system use, I now need a large, contiguous drive. Offer includes: SyDos 44i internal drive SCSI adapter card and cables All original documentation Software All original packaging 8 cartridges totalling over 350Mb (no bad sectors or defects) The installation was a breeze on my 386 clone. I will trade for something near 300Mb IDE, or sell for $450. I will also consider trading for 4 4Mx9 30 pin SIMMs at 70ns. -- Walter G. Seefeld | By the dawn's early light, 940 N. Jackson St. #1A | By all I know is right, Starkville, MS 39759 | We're going to reap what we have sown. N5QXR | -Jackson Brown

From: [email protected] (Ronald Queloz) Subject: Store/Post events Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH Lines: 31 store and reply of mouse and keyboard events -------------------------------------------- To produce regression tests or automatic demo's we would like to store all mouse and keyboard events produced by a user. It should be possible to filter the mouse and keyboard events from the server's queue an to store them in a file. This sequence of events, stored in a file, should be given to the server's queue as if a user is working. 1. Exists a tool that is capable to save and reply all mouse and keyboard events (where)? 2. Where one can catch these events to store them ? In our case the server's queue is on a X Terminal (HP). Where can we catch all events coming from a given server. If this is not possible, can we catch all events given to a certain client and how ? 3. Where one can send a stored sequence of events to simulate a user ? Is there a central dispatcher on the clients machine who manages all incoming events from a given server and how can we reach it ? Thanks in advance Ron.

From: [email protected] (Mike Simon) Subject: Re: Please help identify this old 3Com Ethernet card Article-I.D.: moscow.C5L5C5.GtM Organization: University of Idaho CS Dept. Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: leopard.cs.uidaho.edu In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Seng-Poh Lee, Speedy) writes: |> I have an old 3Com ethernet card (PC AT Bus) that came out of a Apollo |> workstation. I'm trying to identify it in order to use it on a PC. |> |> The Assembly number is 4008-00 REV 2 and it is a 16 bit card, circa |> 1985. It has an AUI port as well as a BNC coax connection. It has |> selectable address for the BIOS, IO, DMA, and IRQ locations via berg |> jumpers. It also appears to have a Intel 80186 processor on board, |> presumably for buffering. |> |> The ethernet chip appears to be an Intel 82586, a 48 pin DIP package. Is |> this chip an equivalent to the 8390 used in some cards? There is also |> a 68 pin PLCC chip, called a LINK+ |> |> Please e-mail as I don't think this is of general interest. My least favorite last line of a post. Um, it is of general interest. As I prepare to retire 22 Apollos myself, I'm looking for ways to recycle the useful parts. Mike Simon [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Jerry Bowman) Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance? Nntp-Posting-Host: fred.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado Boulder, OCS Lines: 52 In article <[email protected]> Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes: >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (SCOTT WARREN ROSANDER) writes: >|> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (George Hei >|> nz) writes: >|> >After too many years of school I'm finally graduating and getting a real >|> >job. Of course I am trying to make plans of how to spend all this extra >|> >money. Right now I have an 89 accord, a good car, but not real sporty & >|> >I was thinking of selling it in about two years and dropping around >|> >$20k on a sports car of some kind. After thinking about it, I may have a >|> >better idea -- I'll keep the Accord until it drops and buy the car I've >|> >always wanted -- a Corvette Stingray. My reasoning is that $8000 (accord)+ >|> >$8000 (corvette) =$16000 is less than what I would spend anyway. >|> > >|> >Basically, I'm thinking of a late 70's, early 80's for around $7-$10k. >|> >My question is, what are good years to consider (for reliability, looks, >|> >horsepower -- in that order, believe it or not, horsepower is not a main >|> >concern, if I want to go fast, I get on my motorcycle) and what are >|> >good prices? >|> > >|> >Also, what would insurance look like? I'm male, single, 23 (I might >|> >wait until I'm 25 to get the car = lower insurance). Would the fact that >|> >I mainly drive the other car lower it? Is there some type of "classic >|> >car" or "rarely driven" insurance class for driving it under 10k miles >|> >per year? >|> > >|> My dad has a 66 vette and its on what you say 'classic insurance'. >|> Basically what that means is that it has restricted amount of driving >|> time, which basically means it cant be used as an every day car and would >|> probably suit your needs for limited mileage. >|> -- > In my area, Denver, if you look around alittle you can get an 1984 for 10,000 or less, not much less. You said your not looking to go fast, they are a really nice car just not real powerful.> >In addition to restricted mileage, many classic insurance carriers also require >that the vehicle be garaged when not in use. > >$0.02 > >Ericy > > > *---------------------------------+---------------------------* > | Eric Youngblood | > | Bell-Northern Research _ | > | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~- | > | \, _} | > | \( +---------------------------| > | | Peon w/o Email privs | > *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

From: [email protected] Subject: Re: electronic odometers Article-I.D.: kuhub.1993Apr15.153153.49197 Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Lines: 10 I had the insturment panel go out in my car (a 1990 Lincoln Contenintal) which is a digital dash. They replaced the whole thing with a 1991 dash (thank god it was under the warrenty ! :-) Anyway, the odometer was reading the exact milage from the old panel. It must have a EEPROM of some sort in it that is up-dated. Seems to me that removing the battery would erase it, but it doesn't. So I guess they swapped the NVM chip (non-volitile memory) and installed it in the new dash. No, they wouldn't let me have the old dash to tinker with :-( -=-= Wes =-=-

From: [email protected] (Dillon Pyron) Subject: Re: Non-lethal alternatives to handguns? Keywords: handgun mace pepper-spray taser tasp phaser Lines: 24 Nntp-Posting-Host: skndiv.dseg.ti.com Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (douglas craig holland) writes: > >What about guns with non-lethal bullets, like rubber or plastic bullets. Would >those work very well in stopping an attack? Ask the Brits. Enough people have been killed by rubber bullets that they now use them under only certain "controlled" circumstances. And they are fired from something that looks like a tear gas launcher. There are smaller rubber bullets and pellets (for shotguns). I understand that they are only intended to be discouragers, ie. for the snapping but not truly dangerous animal. In general, they do not seem capable of really stopping someone who wants you or past you. They are fired at very low muzzle velocity (the .38 ball round is intended for a 400fps load). Finally, as your mother warned you, you can put an eye out with that thing. :-) -- Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated. (214)462-3556 (when I'm here) | (214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |Texans: Vote NO on Robin Hood. We need [email protected] |solutions, not gestures. PADI DM-54909 |

From: [email protected] (Steinn Sigurdsson) Subject: Re: New planet/Kuiper object found? Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO Lines: 23 Distribution: sci <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu In-reply-to: [email protected]'s message of 23 Apr 1993 18:44:19 GMT In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jeff Foust) writes: In a recent article [email protected] (James Davis Nicoll) writes: > If the new Kuiper belt object *is* called 'Karla', the next >one should be called 'Smiley'. Unless I'm imaging things, (always a possibility =) 1992 QB1, the Kuiper Belt object discovered last year, is known as Smiley. As it happens the _second_ one is Karla. The first one was Smiley. All subject to the vagaries of the IAU of course, but I think they might let this one slide... * Steinn Sigurdsson Lick Observatory * * [email protected] "standard disclaimer" * * "The worst thing you can say to a true revolutionary is that his * * revolution is unnecessary, that the problems can be corrected without * * radical change. Telling people that paradise can be attained without * * revolution is treason of the vilest kind." -- H.S. 1993 * Just had to try out my new .sig# on this forum ;-)

From: [email protected] (stephen.chu) Subject: Application Errors on WIN31 Organization: AT&T Keywords: memory errors Lines: 60 H E L P ! I have a problem in which I'm getting increasing frustrated every day... Some background about my PC: - American Megatrend BIOS (clone 386 SX) with 32M of RAM - config.sys file: device=c:\dos\himem.sys dos=high,umb device=c:\windows\emm386.exe noems files=30 buffers=30 stack=9,256 - autoexec.bat file is using smartdrv.exe +c - CMOS set up is running 0 wait state on read and write cache ram. The problem: APPLICATION ERROR from WIN31 I started off with a newly installed WIN31 and then installed EXCEL. Run excel, no problem. A permanent swap file of size 18K was in place for windows. Ok, I then proceed to install Norton Desktop for Windows version 2.0. No problem with the installation. I also allow NDW to alter my autoexec.bat(with the nav running on c:). The problem came when I try to (bring up excel or if excel is running and right in the middle of it - like click a selection with the mouse) from the desktop. First of all, I always get the application error screen followed by another application error screen with various different messages. The following are some of them: - Stack fault, by TC1024.DRV at address 0001:XXXX where XXXX is some number. (TC1024.DRV is the VGA driver provided by the manufacture) - General protection fault, by ndw.exe at the same address - Segment load failure, by ndw.exe at same address Some how, the address flagged was always 0001:something. What is address 0001:XXXX means? I have absolutely on idea what this mean. I tried commented out the TSR programs from autoexec.bat, no help. Is it something to do with the emm386 setup which is not telling WIN31 what it suppose to know. Looks like the application is crossing memory boundary when it is being loaded or while it is running. Please reply if you have any idea or suggestion. I'm willing to try anything. -------------- Steve Chu AT&T Bell Labs Holmdel, NJ

From: [email protected] (Ken Eyler) Subject: 3D Animation Station Article-I.D.: shelley.1r75bgINNob9 Distribution: world Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu I am looking for some information about 3D animation stations that are currently on the market. The price of the station can be from 5K-20K, but no more than $20,000.00. Type of workstation doesnt matter (PC, MAC, SGI etc..) . If you use or have bought/looked at one or can suggest your dream machine, then please mail me your configurations. I need the following. 1. Type of station (PC, MAC etc.. ) 2. Expandibilty of the machine. 3. Software that can run on it 4. VTR Controller and/or VTR deck model/name. 5. Vendors names and numbers. Thanks in advance. Ken Eyler [email protected] The Evergreen State College

From: [email protected] (Marc Donovan) Subject: Re: I want use DeskJet on System7 Nntp-Posting-Host: bcarh1ee Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa Distribution: comp Lines: 30 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Tsuyoshi Mori) writes: >I used HP DeskJet with Orange Micros Grappler LS on System6.0.5. > >But now I update system 6.0.5 to System7 with Kanji-Talk 7.1, >then I can not print by my DeskJet. >Is the Grappler LS old ? >Can I use DeskJet on System7 ? >Please tell me how to use DeskJet on System7. >Thank you >-- >FROM JAPAN [email protected] I currently use an HP DeskJet with Grappler LS ver 1.0, and it works on System7. Course, I only use the SWA Dutch and SWA Swiss fonts that came with it, due to the 4x size requirement to print to the HP. (ie: must have 40pnt definition to print a 10pnt font) When I upgraded, I talked to Orange Micro, and they state that ver 1.2 of Grappler LS definitely works with System7. However, the upgrade was US$40, so I passed. Hope this helps? <marc> -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Donovan [email protected] [Voice: (613) 765-2868 Fax: (613) 763-9250] ---- Disclaimer: I am the only one responsible for my opinions.

From: [email protected] (Deepak Chhabra) Subject: Re: Canadians - another Stanley Cup Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS Distribution: na Lines: 37 In article <[email protected]> <[email protected]> writes: >Im sorry to tell you this, but unless they pull off another 1986 miracle, there > is no way the HABS will win this year. Ever since they traded for >Ramage, and since Savard came off injury, they have been playing shinny. And >you cant blame Roy for the 4-0 loss to Washington, when 20 players could not >score one goal. I know, you think >I am a Boston fan, but all of my years have been dedicated to Les HABS. >David Degan Well, it seems that the Habs have been much talked-about of late, so here's my $0.02. These guys have absolutely no concept of how to play in front of the damn net!!! Watch them in the offensive zone, especially on the powerplay. Damphousse or Lebeau will skate all over the bloody zone, maybe pass to the point, get it back, skate some more, pass it around....BUT WHERE'S THE SHOT??! Answer: the shot is totally useless because they lack a forward who stands in front of the net a la` Neely, Shanahan, Tocchet, etc etc. Too bad Demers won't put Dipietro or LeClair on the powerplay more often. Dammit, even Ewen would at least cause some disruptions. Montreal desperately needs a power forward with some talent, IMO. Then watch them in their own zone. Patrick Roy is screened on everything. Say what you want about his performance; IMNSHO he cannot stop what he cannot see. And Montreal's defence does a miserable job of clearing the front of the net. Last night against Washington Roy played a *great* game. The first goal came on the most ridiculous goalmouth scramble I've seen in a long time, and he didn't have a hope in hell of stopping the shot. The second goal came on a deflection of a shot he only partially saw anyway. Pathetic defence. The third goal was EN. No wonder he gets pissed off at his defencemen. [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Ted Frank) Subject: Re: The state of justice Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: University of Chicago Lines: 26 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Not a Boomer) writes: >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tim Smith) writes: >> What kind of witnesses? If we are talking about witnesses who were at >> the accident, or were otherwise directly involved (e.g., paramedics, >> emergency room doctors, etc.), then they should have been used at the >> first trial. You don't get a new trial because you screwed up and >> forgot to call all of your witnesses. > > They are two witnesses who didn't come forth until after the first >trial. While it would be "tough luck" for GM if they new about these witnesses >beforehand, IMO this constitutes "new evidence". The test isn't whether GM knew--otherwise that would reward GM for its stupidity. The test is whether GM reasonably should have known of their existence. It works both ways--if GM had won the trial, and the plaintiff turned up two witnesses who came forward after the first trial who should have been located beforehand, too bad, so sad--no new trial. Like Tim said, you don't get a new civil trial because you screwed up the first time around. Unlike the criminal justice system, repose is much more important in the civil justice system. -- ted frank | [email protected] | I'm sorry, the card says "Moops." the u of c law school | standard disclaimers |

From: [email protected] (Alex Milshteyn) Subject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? Organization: Mass General Hospital CIPR Lines: 35 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: > > >I wouldn't call it a double-blind, but one local restaurant's soup >provokes an impressive migraine headache for my wife -- that one >take-out and no other... Nothing unisual. Quote: " Chinese Restaurant Syndrome (CRS): a transient syndrome, associated with arterial dilatation, due to ingestion of monosodium glutamate, which is used liberally in seasoning chinese food; it is characterized by throbbing of the head, lightheadedness, tightness of the jaw, neck and shoulders, and bachache. " End quote. Source: Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 27th edition, 1988, W.B. Saunders, p 1632. This was known long ago. Brain produces and uses some MSG naturally, but not in doses it is served at some chinese places. Having said that, i might add, that in MHO, MSG does not enhance flavor enoughf for me to miss it. When I go to chinese places, I order food without MSG. Goos places will do it for you. A prerequisite for such a service would be a waiter, capable of understanding, what you want. Good Luck. am -- Alexander M. Milshteyn M.D. <[email protected]> CIPR, MGH in Boston, MA. (617)724-9507 Vox (617)726-7830 Fax

Organization: City University of New York From: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Merlin, Mithras and Magick Distribution: world <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Lines: 38 What an exciting thread (finally!) Mitra is Sanskrit for Friend, as such He started out as an avatar of Lord Visnu mentioned first in the Vedas. Later he seems to have risen to chief prominence worshipped by the Persians. Associated with the Sun but NOT the Sun, he is the lord of contract honor and obedience, therefore naturally worshipped by soldiers. He was ordered by the Sun to slay the bull of heaven and He reluct- antly agreed because of His obligation...the blood of that bull spilled and grew all earth life...then Mitra and the Sun sat down to eat. Worship of Lord Mitra ended in Persia with the ascension of the Zoroastrians. Hundreds of years later He was rediscovered and thrown into the Official Roman Pantheon (tm) for some semi-tricky reason, I forget why. But all references of Him ended abruptly when He was stricken from same, so apparently His worship was some sort of vehicle for advancement in the bureaucracy, like membership in the Communist Party was in the Soviet Bloc. The sociology of religion in ancient times is fascinating! Oh, His B-day was 25 Dec. Ahem. I am not sure if the mystery cult really lasted after His was booted from the Roman Imperial God Roster or what. It contained mostly soldiers, with 7 levels of initiation. They worshipped underground in caverns in pews. The bull horns in those temples were for scaring away or impaling evil spirits, I'm not sure that they had Mithraic significance or not. I don't know that the ritual meal was of a cannibalistic nature as is the Christian masses. But eating deities goes way back to Old Kingdom Egypt. Someone mentioned bullfighting. Did Mithraists sacrifice bulls? I forget. More likely, for a religious source, might be the shower of bull's blood enjoyed by the worshippers of Cybele on the Day of Blood? Cybele worship extended all throughout even up to France bigtime. ------- CHARLES HOPE A54SI@CUNYVM [email protected] GOVERNMENT BY REPORTERS...MEDIA-OCRACY.

From: [email protected] (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) Subject: Re: A Miracle in California Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC Lines: 25 Distribution: world Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com In article [email protected], [email protected] (Brian W Simmons) writes: > >Now maybe this isn't a big deal to some of you, but it is to me. I was raised >in the South, and part of my cultural heritage is waving at passersby. I >waved from the side of the road at passing cars, when I drove I waved or >nodded or at least raised an index finger from the steering wheel. People >waved at me as I drove by. I was raised in the South, and I can attest that this is true. Why, on one particularly hot day, as I was walking along the road, some good ole boys in a truck tossed me a cold beer! Of course, they were going 50 mph at the time... >P.S. To prove this wasn't a fluke, it happened to me again when I was out >riding on Wednesday: an unsolicited wave. Wow... Bikers wave to bikers the world over. Whether or not Harley riders wave to other bikers is one of our favorite flame wars... --- Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker, [email protected] |and I showed him a picture of you. I said, DoD #0111 (919)460-8302 |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!" (The Grateful Dead) --> |It seemed like the least I could do...

From: [email protected] (Dillon Pyron) Subject: Re: Why not give $1 billion to first year-long moon residents? Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: skndiv.dseg.ti.com Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Peter Schaefer) writes: >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] writes: >|> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gene Wright) writes: >|> > With the continuin talk about the "End of the Space Age" and complaints >|> > by government over the large cost, why not try something I read about >|> > that might just work. >|> > >|> > Announce that a reward of $1 billion would go to the first corporation >|> > who successfully keeps at least 1 person alive on the moon for a year. >|> > Then you'd see some of the inexpensive but not popular technologies begin >|> > to be developed. THere'd be a different kind of space race then! >|> > >|> > -- >|> > [email protected] (Gene Wright) >|> > theporch.raider.net 615/297-7951 The MacInteresteds of Nashville >|> ==== >|> If that were true, I'd go for it.. I have a few friends who we could pool our >|> resources and do it.. Maybe make it a prize kind of liek the "Solar Car Race" >|> in Australia.. >|> Anybody game for a contest! >|> >|> == >|> Michael Adams, [email protected] -- I'm not high, just jacked > > >Oh gee, a billion dollars! That'd be just about enough to cover the cost of the >feasability study! Happy, Happy, JOY! JOY! > Feasability study?? What a wimp!! While you are studying, others would be doing. Too damn many engineers doing way too little engineering. "He who sits on his arse sits on his fortune" - Sir Richard Francis Burton -- Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated. (214)462-3556 (when I'm here) | (214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |Texans: Vote NO on Robin Hood. We need [email protected] |solutions, not gestures. PADI DM-54909 |

cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!zazen Subject: Re: Radical Agnostic... NOT! From: [email protected] (E. H. Welbon) Organization: Brownian Motion Inc. X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Lines: 34 The One and Only ([email protected]) wrote: : In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Pixie) writes: : [first post I've seen from the ol' Bug-Zoo (BGSU)] : > There is no means that i can possibly think of to prove beyond doubt : >that a god does not exist (but if anyone has one, by all means, tell me : >what it is). Therefore, lacking this ability of absolute proof, being an : >atheist becomes an act of faith in and of itself, and this I cannot accept. : > I accept nothing on blind faith. : Invisible Pink Flying Unicorns! Need I say more? There is also the question of what is meant by "atheist". A familiar example of the importance of the meaning of the word is as follows. The two statements following ARE consistent: (1) I do not believe that you are wearing lilac socks (2) I do not believe that you are are not wearing lilac socks The two statements following are NOT consistent: (3) I do believe that you are wearing lilac socks (4) I do believe that you are are not wearing lilac socks Statements (1) and (2) require no faith, they make no presumptions about the nature of reality. Statements (3) and (4) require belief. Many atheists (myself included) take the following position: (5) I do not believe that there is a god. (6) I do not believe that there is not a god. That is , I harbor no beliefs at all, there is no good evidence for god existing or not. Some folks call this agnosticism. It does not suffer from "blind faith" at all. I think of it as "Don't worry, be happy".

Subject: Re: Albert Sabin From: [email protected] (Rich Fox, Univ of South Dakota) Reply-To: [email protected] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>,<[email protected]> Organization: The University of South Dakota Computer Science Dept. Nntp-Posting-Host: charlie Lines: 71 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Bill Rawlins) writes: >|> >|> >|> However, one highly biased account (as well as possibly internally >|> inconsistent) written over 2 mellenia ago, in a dead language, by fanatic >|> devotees of the creature in question which is not supported by other more >|> objective sources and isnt even accepted by those who's messiah this creature >|> was supposed to be, doesn't convince me in the slightest, especially when many >|> of the current day devotees appear brainwashed into believing this pile of >|> guano... > > Since you have referred to the Messiah, I assume you are referring > to the New Testament. Please detail your complaints or e-mail if > you don't want to post. First-century Greek is well-known and > well-understood. Have you considered Josephus, the Jewish Historian, > who also wrote of Jesus? In addition, the four gospel accounts > are very much in harmony. Bill, I have taken the time to explain that biblical scholars consider the Josephus reference to be an early Christian insert. By biblical scholar I mean an expert who, in the course of his or her research, is willing to let the chips fall where they may. This excludes literalists, who may otherwise be defined as biblical apologists. They find what they want to find. They are not trustworthy by scholarly standards (and others). Why an insert? Read it - I have, a number of times. The passage is glaringly out of context, and Josephus, a superb writer, had no such problem elsewhere in his work. The passage has *nothing* to do with the subject matter in which it lies. It suddenly appears and then just as quickly disappears. Until you can demonstrate how and why the scholarly community is wrong about the Josephus insert, your "proof" is meaningless and it should not be repeated here. What's more, even if Josephus happened to be legitimate, it would "prove" nothing. Scholars speak of the "weight of evidence." Far more independent evidence would be required to validate your claim. Until forthcoming, your belief is based on faith. That's OK, but you exceed your rights when you pass faith off as fact. As for the gospels, there are parallels, but there are also glaring inconsistencies and contradictions. Shouldn't a perfect canon be perfect? Shouldn't there be absolutely no room for debate? I suggest you read _Gospel Fictions_ by Randel Helms, and _The Unauthorized Version_ by Robin Fox (for Herb Huston, no known kinship or familial relationship, but we do indeed share an evolutionary ancestry). The fact that there are inconsistencies, gaps and contradictions does not deny your position. On the other hand, neither do the gospels "prove" your faith. Independent evidence is necessary, and I know of none (which we have already discussed, and so far you have not provided any). Until then, its faith. Moreover, you have committed a fundamental error in logic. You have attempted to "prove" your claim with that which you want to prove. Its no different than saying "I am right because I say so." Your logic is full of circles. It reminds me a bit of the 1910 Presbyterian General Assembly. The assembly defined five fundamentals (this is where "fundamentalist" came from) of orthodox Protestant Christianity, to wit: 1) Jesus performed miracles, 2) Jesus was born of a virgin, 3) Jesus was bodily resurrected, 4) Jesus' crucifixion atoned for human sin, and - here is the clincher - 5) the bible is the inerrant word of God. Presbyterians construe "inerrant" broadly as spritually inerrant. Fundamentalists take the first four as literally true, and then validate them with a literally inerrant bible, which contains the first four, and which is the only thing known to contain the first four. Smoke and mirrors and wands and hand waving if ever there was! Its faith, Bill. You don't have any more or better truths than anyone else. Whatever works for you. Just don't foist it on others. Regards, Rich Fox, Anthro, Usouthdakota

From: [email protected] (Frank Calloway) Subject: Re: Windows 3.1 slower using DOS 6 ???? Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO Lines: 3 Not on my system. Frank Calloway

From: [email protected] Subject: Re: Necessity of fuel injector cleaning by dealership Article-I.D.: bb1t.1993Apr6.125537.1 Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO Lines: 29 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] ( Jim Grey) writes: > In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (paul.r.mount) writes: >> >>In your experience, how true is it that a fuel injector cleaning >>will do much more good than just using detergent gas. While I > > A "fuel injector cleaning" at the dealer is probably little more than > them opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner, > and sending you on your merry way $59 poorer. Go to KMart and buy the > cleaner yourself for $1.29. This should not be the case if they are at all reputable. Fuel injector cleaning is done properly with a can of injector cleaner solvent which is hooked up to the fuel system under high pressure. The car is actually run on the solvent during the cleaning process. The equipment to properly do this is pricey, and generally not something the average home mechanic has. The solvent itself is not very expensive ($5-$8) and you could probably make up a hose to fit your system and do it yourself, but I didn't tell you that... :-) Not many in-tank cleaners are worth wasting your money on. There has been a discussion of these products on here from time to time, and Chevron Techron (not Pro-Gard with Techron) is generally regarded as the best. It is, however, a bit more than $1.29 a bottle. IMHO, it will not substitute for proper injector cleaning if they are really crudded up. You'll have to decide if the $59 price is a better deal than spending your time and/or buying equipment to do it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Keller +1 314 537 6317 The Agricultural Group of Monsanto Company [email protected] KA0WCH packet: [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Cornelis Wessels) Subject: Point within a polygon Organization: MATHEMAGIC Lines: 71 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: > > I am looking for an algorithm to determine if a given point is bound by a > polygon. Does anyone have any such code or a reference to book containing > information on the subject ? > > Regards > > Simon > /* +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Function : PuntBinnenPolygoon | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Auteur : Cornelis Wessels | | | | Datum : 11-01-1993 | | | | Omschrijving: Bepaalt of de aangeboden VECTOR2D p binnen of op de | | rand van het polygoon P valt. | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Wijzigingen : - | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ */ CLIBSTATUS PuntBinnenPolygoon ( POLYGOON *P, VECTOR2D *p ) { VECTOR2D o, v, w; INDEX aantal_snijpunten, N, n; aantal_snijpunten = 0; N = GeefPolygoonLengte(P); GeefPolygoonRandpunt ( P, N, &o ); for ( n=1; n<=N; n++ ) { GeefPolygoonRandpunt ( P, n, &v ); if ( o.x >= p->x && v.x < p->x || o.x < p->x && v.x >= p->x ) { w.x = p->x; InterpoleerLineair ( &o, &v, &w ); if ( w.x == p->x && w.y == p->y ) return(CLIBSUCCES); else if ( w.y > p->y ) aantal_snijpunten++; } KopieerVector2d ( &v, &o ); } if ( aantal_snijpunten%2 == 0 ) return(CLIBERBUITEN); else return(CLIBSUCCES); } Cornelis Wessels Krommenoord 14 3079 ZT ROTTERDAM The Netherlands +31 10 4826394 [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Melinda . Hsu ) Subject: Re: The arrogance of Christians Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio Lines: 74 I'd like to share my thoughts on this topic of "arrogance of Christians" and look forward to any responses. In my encounters with Christians, I find myself dismayed by their belief that their faith is total truth. According to them, their beliefs come from the Bible and the bible is the word of God and God is truth - thus they know the truth. This stance makes it difficult to discuss other faiths with them and my own hesitations about Christianity because they see no other way. Their way is the 'truth.' But I see their faith arising from a willful choice to believe a particular way. That choice is part faith and part reason, but it seems to me a choice. My discussions with some Christians remind me of schoolyard discussions when I was in grade school: A kid would say, "All policemen are jerks!" I'd ask, "How do you know?" "Because my daddy told me so!" "How do you know you're daddy is right?" "He says he's always right!" Well the argument usually stops right there. In the end, aren't we all just kids, groping for the truth? If so, do we have the authority to declare all other beliefs besides our own as false? ------------- This is only my third time browsing through this newsgroup. I apologize if I'm covering tired old ground. Some of the discussions on this topic have piqued my interest and I welcome any comments. | Louis J. Kim --- _ O PH:512-522-5556 | | Southwest Research Institute --- ,/ |\/' FAX:512-522-3042 | | Post Office Drawer 28510 ---- |__ [email protected] | | San Antonio, TX 78228-0510 ---- __/ \ [email protected] | -- [I'm sort of mystified about how a Christian might respond to this. I can understand criticisms of Christianity that say there's not enough evidence to believe it, or that there's just as good evidence for other religions. I don't agree, but clearly there are plenty of intelligent people who don't find the evidence convincing. But that doesn't seem to be your point. Rather, you seem upset that people who believe Christianity is true also believe that things which contradict it are false. This suggests a model of spiritual things that's rather different than the Christian one. It sounds more like an existentialist view, where people choose what value to follow, but there's no actual independent spiritual reality, and so no way to say that a specific choice is in some unique sense right. This sort of model -- with modifications of one sort or another -- may be appropriate for some religions. But Christianity is in its essense a "historical" religion. That is, it's based on the concept that there are actual spiritual entities out there, that one of them has intervened in history in specific ways, and that we see evidence of that in history. In the "mundane" world, we are not free to choose how things work. When we drop something, it falls (aside from well-defined situations where it doesn't). The Christian concept is that spiritual matters, there is also an actual external reality. I hope we're all honest enough not to claim that we have perfect understanding. But while we may not think we know everything, we are confident that we know some things. And that implies that we think things that contradict them are false. I don't see how else we could proceed. This needn't result in arrogance. I'm certainly interested in talking with people of other religions. They may have things to teach me, and even if they don't, I respect them as fellow human beings. But it's got to be possible to respect people and also think that on some matters they are wrong. Maybe even disasterously wrong. --clh]

From: [email protected] (Kalki Dasa) Subject: Bhagavad-Gita 2.44 Organization: Kalki's Infoline BBS, Aiken, SC, USA Lines: 42 TEXT 44 bhogaisvarya-prasaktanam tayapahrta-cetasam vyavasayatmika buddhih samadhau na vidhiyate bhoga--to material enjoyment; aisvarya--and opulence; prasaktanam--for those who are attached; taya--by such things; apahrta-cetasam--bewildered in mind; vyavasaya-atmika--fixed in determination; buddhih--devotional service to the Lord; samadhau--in the controlled mind; na--never; vidhiyate--does take place. TRANSLATION In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place. PURPORT Samadhi means ``fixed mind.'' The Vedic dictionary, the Nirukti, says, samyag adhiyate 'sminn atma-tattva-yathatmyam: ``When the mind is fixed for understanding the self, it is said to be in samadhi.'' Samadhi is never possible for persons interested in material sense enjoyment, nor for those who are bewildered by such temporary things. They are more or less condemned by the process of material energy. Bhagavad-Gita As It Is Books of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami --------------------------------------------------------- | Don't forget to chant: | | | | Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare | | Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare | | | | Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA | | ([email protected]) | ---------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] (John Emery) Subject: Re: Can sin "block" our prayers? Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA Lines: 28 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jayne Kulikauskas) writes: > >This verse also makes me think of the kind of husband who decides what >is God's will for his family without consulting his wife. God reveals >His will to both the husband and the wife. There needs to be some >degree of mutuality in decision making. Even those whose understanding >of the Bible leads to a belief in an authoritarian headship of the >husband need to incorporate this in order to have a functional family. >One way to look at it is that God speaks to the wife through the husband >and to the husband through the wife. > > >Jayne Kulikauskas/ [email protected] I agree. God makes the husband the head of the house. But he surely can't do it alone. He needs the help of his beloved wife whom the Lord gave him. At least that's how it is in my house. I thank God for the beautiful woman He has brought into my life. I couldn't lead without the help of my wonderful wife. -- John Emery "I will praise you, O Lord my God, with all my heart; [email protected] I will glorify your name forever. For great is your love toward me; you have delivered me from the depths of the grave." (Psalm 86:12-13)

From: [email protected] (The_Doge) Subject: What we learned from the Waco wackos Keywords: prophet profit Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Distribution: usa Lines: 32 There are actually a few important things we can glean from this mess: 1) When they start getting desperate for an answer to the question: "What's it all about. Mr. Natural?", pinkboys will buy darn near *anything*, which means: 2) There's still plenty of $$$$ to be made in the False Jesus business by enterprising SubGenii. Just remember that: 3) Once you've separated the pinks from their green, don't blow it all on automatic weapons from Mexico. Put it in a Swiss bank account. Smile a lot. Have your flunkies hand out flowers in airports. The Con will just shrug you off as long as: 4) You never, never, NEVER start to believe your own bulldada! If "David Koresh" hand't started swallowing his own "apocalypso now" crap, he'd be working crossword puzzles in the Bahamas today instead of contributing to the mulch layer in Waco. This is because: 5) When you start shooting at cops, they're likely to shoot back. And most of 'em are better shots than you are. In short: - P.T. Barnum was right and - Stupidity is self-correcting Thus endeth the lesson. ************************************************************ * The_Doge of South St. Louis * * Dobbs-Approved Media Conspirator(tm) * * "One Step Beyond" -- Sundays, 3 to 5 pm * * 88.1 FM St. Louis Community Radio * * "You'll pay to know what you *really* think!" * * -- J.R. "Bob" Dobbs" * ************************************************************

From: [email protected] (Earl Boebert) Subject: Removing Distortion From Bitmapped Drawings? Organization: SCTC Lines: 47 Let's say you have a scanned image of a line drawing; in this case a boat, but it could be anything. On the drawing you have a set of reference points whose true x,y positions are known. Now you digitize the drawing manually (in this case, using Yaron Danon's excellent Digitize program). That is, you use a program which converts cursor positions to x,y and saves those values when you click the mouse. Upon digitizing you notice that the reference point values that come out of the digitizing process differ in small but significant ways from the known true values. This is understandable because the scanned drawing is a reproduction of the original and there are successive sources of distortion such as differential expansion and contraction of paper, errors introduced in the printing process, scanner errors and what have you. The errors are not uniform over the entire drawing, so "global" adjustments such as stretching/contracting uniformly over x or y, or rotating the whole drawing, are not satisfactory. So the question is: does any kind soul know of an algorithm for removing such distortion? In particular, if I have three sets of points Reference(x,y) (the known true values) DistortedReference(x,y) (the same points, with known errors) DistortedData(x,y) (other points, with unknown errors) what function of Reference and Distorted could I apply to DistortedData to remove the errors. I suspect the problem could be solved by treating the distorted reference points as resulting from the projection of a "bumpy" 3d surface, solving for the surface and then "flattening" it to remove the errors in the other data points. Any kind and informed soul out there have any ideas, or better yet, pointers to treatments of the same or similar problems? Thanks, Earl

From: [email protected] (Dave Tholen) Subject: Re: New planet/Kuiper object found? Organization: University of Hawaii Distribution: sci Lines: 18 Francisco da Fonseca Rodrigues writes: > Tonigth a TV journal here in Brasil announced that an object, > beyond Pluto's orbit, was found by an observatory at Hawaii. They > named the object Karla. The name is a working name only; quite unofficial. The formal designation is 1993 FW. > The program said the object wasn't a gaseous giant planet, and > should be composed by rocks and ices. > > Can someone confirm these information? Could this object be a > new planet or a Kuiper object? It's most likely a Kuiper Belt object, with an estimated diameter of 290 km. The orbit hasn't been determined well enough yet to say much more about it.

From: [email protected] (John Gayman) Subject: Another happy Gateway owner Organization: WA3WBU, Marysville, PA Lines: 43 Since I've been seeing all kinds of complaints regarding Gateways lately on here, I thought I post my recent pleasant experiences. My machine (4DX2-66V) this past Friday. This was two weeks to the DAY from when I called the order in. Upon unboxing it I found everything to be in perfect order. All the peripherals I ordered were properly installed (Jumbo-250 & CD-ROM). I was very impressed with the quantity and quality of the Gateway documentation. All software came with the original disks and manuals. The Gateway manual itself is in a nice 3-ring binder. The ATI GUP came with build59 drivers. All other software I specified (Microsoft Office) was properly installed. The machine came right up out of the box and has been performing flawlessly. It's been on all weekend and it hardly even reaches room temperature. I think the big roomy tower case has a lot to do with it. It's up and running DOS 6.0 with no problems. I've also read about some people having problems with high speed serial communications. I used the DOS 6.0 InterLink program which lets me link to my old computer via a serial port at 115.2K baud. It then "maps" the other machines two hard disks as my disks F & G. You can "cd" to these drives and either run programs or copy files. It's almost like a peer-peer lan except you can also *run* programs on the other machine. It's not a two way street. The other machine is the server and this machine is the client. So thats where it seems to differ from the peer to peer stuff. For a bundled DOS utility its very impressive. My Jumbo-250 took about 11 minutes to back up 117MB of data. I also by-passed any potential Gateway monitor problems by taking the $430 credit and applying it towards a NEC 4FG. I love this monitor! So, I'm glad there is some good news Gateway stories and I'm glad it was me. (Now if it just KEEPS working). :-) John -- John Gayman, WA3WBU UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH

From: [email protected] (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Is Keith as ignorant as he seems? Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu [email protected] (Mike McAngus) writes: >>>No, everything wouldn't be OK, but it would be a start. >>Now wait, if the religious organizations were no longer tax-exempt, what >>other beef could you have? They would then have as much right to lobby >>as would any other group. >You asked "would everything be okay". I answered no. Everything >encompasses more than just the tax-exempt status of religious >organizations. Well, if everything wouldn't be okay, then tell us what it is that wouldn't be okay. That is, if religions were no longer tax-exempt, then what would be wrong with their lobbying or otherwise attempting to influence politics? keith

From: [email protected] (Chris Faehl) Subject: Re: some thoughts. Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 12 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: vesta.unm.edu Keywords: Dan Bissell In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tammy R Healy) writes: [deletia wrt pathetic Jee-zus posting by Bissel] > I hope you're not going to flame him. Please give him the same coutesy you' > ve given me. NO. He hasn't extended to US the courtesy you've shown us, so he don't get no pie. Tammy, I respect your beliefs because you don't try to stamp them into my being. I have scorn for posters whose sole purpose appears to be to evangelize. > > Tammy

From: [email protected] (Paul Hudson Jr) Subject: Re: Clarification of personal position Organization: University of Georgia, Athens Lines: 26 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Darius_Lecointe) writes: >If it were a sin to violate Sunday no one could >ever be forgiven for that for Jesus never kept Sunday holy. He only >recognized one day of the seven as holy. Jesus also recognized other holy days, like the Passover. Acts 15 says that no more should be layed on the Gentiles than that which is necessary. The sabbath is not in the list, nor do any of the epistles instruct people to keep the 7th day, while Christians were living among people who did not keep the 7th day. It looks like that would have been a problem. Instead, we have Scriptures telling us that all days can be esteemed alike (Romans 14:5) and that no man should judge us in regard to what kind of food we eat, Jewish holy days we keep, or _in regard to the sabbath. (Col. 2.) >The >question is "On what authority do we proclaim that the requirements of the >fourth commandment are no longer relevant to modern Christians?" I don't think that the Sabbath, or any other command of the law is totally irrelevant to modern Christians, but what about Collosions 2, where it says that we are not to be judged in regard to the keeping of the sabbath? Link Hudson.

From: [email protected] (gregb) Subject: Looking for crypto paper Distribution: usa Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: tosgcla.den.mmc.com Looking for PostScript or Tex version of a paper called: "PUBLIC-KEY CRYPTOGRAPHY" Written by: James Nechvatal Security Technology Group National Computer Systems Laboratory National Institute of Standards and Technology Gaithersburg, MD 20899 December 1990 The version I obtained is plain text and all symbolic character formatting has been lost. -- [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Jon Leech) Subject: Space FAQ 12/15 - Controversial Questions Keywords: Frequently Asked Questions Article-I.D.: cs.controversy_733694426 Expires: 6 May 1993 20:00:26 GMT Distribution: world Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 252 Supersedes: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: mahler.cs.unc.edu Archive-name: space/controversy Last-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:06 $ CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS These issues periodically come up with much argument and few facts being offered. The summaries below attempt to represent the position on which much of the net community has settled. Please DON'T bring them up again unless there's something truly new to be discussed. The net can't set public policy, that's what your representatives are for. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SATURN V PLANS Despite a widespread belief to the contrary, the Saturn V blueprints have not been lost. They are kept at Marshall Space Flight Center on microfilm. The problem in re-creating the Saturn V is not finding the drawings, it is finding vendors who can supply mid-1960's vintage hardware (like guidance system components), and the fact that the launch pads and VAB have been converted to Space Shuttle use, so you have no place to launch from. By the time you redesign to accommodate available hardware and re-modify the launch pads, you may as well have started from scratch with a clean sheet design. WHY DATA FROM SPACE MISSIONS ISN'T IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE Investigators associated with NASA missions are allowed exclusive access for one year after the data is obtained in order to give them an opportunity to analyze the data and publish results without being "scooped" by people uninvolved in the mission. However, NASA frequently releases examples (in non-digital form, e.g. photos) to the public early in a mission. RISKS OF NUCLEAR (RTG) POWER SOURCES FOR SPACE PROBES There has been extensive discussion on this topic sparked by attempts to block the Galileo and Ulysses launches on grounds of the plutonium thermal sources being dangerous. Numerous studies claim that even in worst-case scenarios (shuttle explosion during launch, or accidental reentry at interplanetary velocities), the risks are extremely small. Two interesting data points are (1) The May 1968 loss of two SNAP 19B2 RTGs, which landed intact in the Pacific Ocean after a Nimbus B weather satellite failed to reach orbit. The fuel was recovered after 5 months with no release of plutonium. (2) In April 1970, the Apollo 13 lunar module reentered the atmosphere and its SNAP 27 RTG heat source, which was jettisoned, fell intact into the 20,000 feet deep Tonga Trench in the Pacific Ocean. The corrosion resistant materials of the RTG are expected to prevent release of the fuel for a period of time equal to 10 half-lives of the Pu-238 fuel or about 870 years [DOE 1980]. To make your own informed judgement, some references you may wish to pursue are: A good review of the technical facts and issues is given by Daniel Salisbury in "Radiation Risk and Planetary Exploration-- The RTG Controversy," *Planetary Report*, May-June 1987, pages 3-7. Another good article, which also reviews the events preceding Galileo's launch, "Showdown at Pad 39-B," by Robert G. Nichols, appeared in the November 1989 issue of *Ad Astra*. (Both magazines are published by pro-space organizations, the Planetary Society and the National Space Society respectively.) Gordon L Chipman, Jr., "Advanced Space Nuclear Systems" (AAS 82-261), in *Developing the Space Frontier*, edited by Albert Naumann and Grover Alexander, Univelt, 1983, p. 193-213. "Hazards from Plutonium Toxicity", by Bernard L. Cohen, Health Physics, Vol 32 (may) 1977, page 359-379. NUS Corporation, Safety Status Report for the Ulysses Mission: Risk Analysis (Book 1). Document number is NUS 5235; there is no GPO #; published Jan 31, 1990. NASA Office of Space Science and Applications, *Final Environmental Impact Statement for the Ulysses Mission (Tier 2)*, (no serial number or GPO number, but probably available from NTIS or NASA) June 1990. [DOE 1980] U.S. Department of Energy, *Transuranic Elements in the Environment*, Wayne C. Hanson, editor; DOE Document No. DOE/TIC-22800; Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., April 1980.) IMPACT OF THE SPACE SHUTTLE ON THE OZONE LAYER From time to time, claims are made that chemicals released from the Space Shuttle's Solid Rocket Boosters (SRBs) are responsible for a significant amount of damage to the ozone layer. Studies indicate that they in reality have only a minute impact, both in absolute terms and relative to other chemical sources. The remainder of this item is a response from the author of the quoted study, Charles Jackman. The atmospheric modelling study of the space shuttle effects on the stratosphere involved three independent theoretical groups, and was organized by Dr. Michael Prather, NASA/Goddard Institute for Space Studies. The three groups involved Michael Prather and Maria Garcia (NASA/GISS), Charlie Jackman and Anne Douglass (NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center), and Malcolm Ko and Dak Sze (Atmospheric and Environmental Research, Inc.). The effort was to look at the effects of the space shuttle and Titan rockets on the stratosphere. The following are the estimated sources of stratospheric chlorine: Industrial sources: 300,000,000 kilograms/year Natural sources: 75,000,000 kilograms/year Shuttle sources: 725,000 kilograms/year The shuttle source assumes 9 space shuttles and 6 Titan rockets are launched yearly. Thus the launches would add less than 0.25% to the total stratospheric chlorine sources. The effect on ozone is minimal: global yearly average total ozone would be decreased by 0.0065%. This is much less than total ozone variability associated with volcanic activity and solar flares. The influence of human-made chlorine products on ozone is computed by atmospheric model calculations to be a 1% decrease in globally averaged ozone between 1980 and 1990. The influence of the space shuttle and Titan rockets on the stratosphere is negligible. The launch schedule of the Space Shuttle and Titan rockets would need to be increased by over a factor of a hundred in order to have about the same effect on ozone as our increases in industrial halocarbons do at the present time. Theoretical results of this study have been published in _The Space Shuttle's Impact on the Stratosphere_, MJ Prather, MM Garcia, AR Douglass, CH Jackman, M.K.W. Ko and N.D. Sze, Journal of Geophysical Research, 95, 18583-18590, 1990. Charles Jackman, Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Branch, Code 916, NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD 20771 Also see _Chemical Rockets and the Environment_, A McDonald, R Bennett, J Hinshaw, and M Barnes, Aerospace America, May 1991. HOW LONG CAN A HUMAN LIVE UNPROTECTED IN SPACE If you *don't* try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness. Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, you're dying. The limits are not really known. References: _The Effect on the Chimpanzee of Rapid Decompression to a Near Vacuum_, Alfred G. Koestler ed., NASA CR-329 (Nov 1965). _Experimental Animal Decompression to a Near Vacuum Environment_, R.W. Bancroft, J.E. Dunn, eds, Report SAM-TR-65-48 (June 1965), USAF School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks AFB, Texas. HOW THE CHALLENGER ASTRONAUTS DIED The Challenger shuttle launch was not destroyed in an explosion. This is a well-documented fact; see the Rogers Commission report, for example. What looked like an explosion was fuel burning after the external tank came apart. The forces on the crew cabin were not sufficient to kill the astronauts, never mind destroy their bodies, according to the Kerwin team's medical/forensic report. The astronauts were killed when the more-or-less intact cabin hit the water at circa 200MPH, and their bodies then spent several weeks underwater. Their remains were recovered, and after the Kerwin team examined them, they were sent off to be buried. USING THE SHUTTLE BEYOND LOW EARTH ORBIT You can't use the shuttle orbiter for missions beyond low Earth orbit because it can't get there. It is big and heavy and does not carry enough fuel, even if you fill part of the cargo bay with tanks. Furthermore, it is not particularly sensible to do so, because much of that weight is things like wings, which are totally useless except in the immediate vicinity of the Earth. The shuttle orbiter is highly specialized for travel between Earth's surface and low orbit. Taking it higher is enormously costly and wasteful. A much better approach would be to use shuttle subsystems to build a specialized high-orbit spacecraft. [Yet another concise answer by Henry Spencer.] THE "FACE ON MARS" There really is a big rock on Mars that looks remarkably like a humanoid face. It appears in two different frames of Viking Orbiter imagery: 35A72 (much more facelike in appearance, and the one more often published, with the Sun 10 degrees above western horizon) and 70A13 (with the Sun 27 degrees from the west). Science writer Richard Hoagland has championed the idea that the Face is artificial, intended to resemble a human, and erected by an extraterrestrial civilization. Most other analysts concede that the resemblance is most likely accidental. Other Viking images show a smiley-faced crater and a lava flow resembling Kermit the Frog elsewhere on Mars. There exists a Mars Anomalies Research Society (sorry, don't know the address) to study the Face. The Mars Observer mission will carry an extremely high-resolution camera, and better images of the formation will hopefully settle this question in a few years. In the meantime, speculation about the Face is best carried on in the altnet group alt.alien.visitors, not sci.space or sci.astro. V. DiPeitro and G. Molenaar, *Unusual Martian Surface Features*, Mars Research, P.O. Box 284, Glen Dale, Maryland, USA, 1982. $18 by mail. R.R. Pozos, *The Face of Mars*, Chicago Review Press, 1986. [Account of an interdisciplinary speculative conference Hoagland organized to investigate the Face] R.C. Hoagland, *The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever*, North Atlantic Books, Berkeley, California, USA, 1987. [Elaborate discussion of evidence and speculation that formations near the Face form a city] M.J. Carlotto, "Digital Imagery Analysis of Unusual Martian Surface Features," *Applied Optics*, 27, pp. 1926-1933, 1987. [Extracts three-dimensional model for the Face from the 2-D images] M.J. Carlotto & M.C. Stein, "A Method of Searching for Artificial Objects on Planetary Surfaces," *Journal of the British Interplanetary Society*, Vol. 43 no. 5 (May 1990), p.209-216. [Uses a fractal image analysis model to guess whether the Face is artificial] B. O'Leary, "Analysis of Images of the `Face' on Mars and Possible Intelligent Origin," *JBIS*, Vol. 43 no. 5 (May 1990), p. 203-208. [Lights Carlotto's model from the two angles and shows it's consistent; shows that the Face doesn't look facelike if observed from the surface] NEXT: FAQ #13/15 - Space activist/interest/research groups & space publications

From: [email protected] (Franklin Kadell Jordan) Subject: Re: How many homosexuals are there? Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu I am so tired about all this debate on how many gays there are! Such arguments are basically worthless, imho. Would it really matter if it were millions of people who are regularly denied access to housing, employment, and personal security or even only one? As for death threats, I happen to know from personal experience that gay people are far more likely to receive them based on political veiws or even personal philosophies related to the issue of sexual orientation than are heterosex uals. Not a week goes by that I personally or one of my friends is not physically or verbally harrassed for even appearing to be gay. Everyone is garaunteed certain unalienable rights under our current form of government in theory, yet every day gay people are victimized by their local governments, by the police force, and by (for the most part) an uninformed and ignorant public. Is this democracy? I don't think so. A society's sense of justice is judged on the basis of the treatment of the people who make up that society. All of those people. And yes, that includes gays, lesbians, and bisexuals whose "crimes" have no victims, and who are as varied and diverse as the society of wich they are a part. -- Frank Jordan  Gay Arab Bassoonists UNITE!!!

From: [email protected] (William E. Johns) Subject: Need a wheel Originator: [email protected] Keywords: '92 Organization: Washington State University Distribution: na Lines: 18 Does anyone have a rear wheel for a PD they'd like to part with? Does anyone know where I might find one salvage? As long as I'm getting the GIVI luggage for Brunnhilde and have the room, I thought I'd carry a spare. Ride Free, Bill ___________________________________________________________________ [email protected] prez=BIMC KotV KotRR DoD #00314 AMA #580924 SPI = 7.18 WMTC #0002 KotD #0001 Yamabeemer fj100gs1200pdr650 Special and a Volvo. What more could anyone ask? Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

From: [email protected] (Christopher Stevan Downey) Subject: Re: This Year's vs. Next Year's Playoffs Nntp-Posting-Host: crockett1a.its.rpi.edu Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. Lines: 29 Let's fill in some winners here: |> |> Well, since someone probably wanted to know, here's this year's playoff |> matchups on the left, and what the matchups would be next year under the |> new alignment and playoff-matchup rules. The same 16 teams make the playoffs |> under next year's rules, and three of the first round matchups are the same |> (QUE-MTL, CHI-STL, VAN-WIN). |> |> PIT --+ +-- CHI | PIT --+ +-- CHI |> +PIT+ +CHI+ | +---+ +---+ |> NJ --+ | | +-- STL | BUF --+ | | +-- STL |> +NYI+ +DET+ | +---+ +---+ |> WAS --+ | | | | +-- DET | QUE --+ | | | | +-- TOR |> +NYI+ | | +DET+ | +---+ | | +---+ |> NYI --+ | *BOS*| +-- TOR | MTL --+ | | +-- CAL |> +------+ | +------+ |> BOS --+ | DET | +-- VAN | WAS --+ | | +-- VAN |> +BOS+ | | +VAN+ | +---+ | | +---+ |> BUF --+ | | | | +-- WIN | NJ --+ | | | | +-- WIN |> +BOS+ +VAN+ | +---+ +---+ |> QUE --+ | | +-- CAL | BOS --+ | | +-- DET |> +QUE+ +CAL+ | +---+ +---+ |> MTL --+ +-- LA | NYI --+ +-- LA |> Just my thoughts, Chris [email protected]

Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world From: [email protected] (Derek Tearne) Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand - Software Development Center Lines: 20 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: > >Oh yeah, I had a 1975 1275GT Mini, and even before I did anything >to it, it could leave an MGB standing anywhere except, perhaps, on a long straight >motorway run at 90+. > >People who bought MGB`s bought them because they were an open topped sportscar >and embodied what people thought they should for an old fashioned traditional >brit. sportscar - not because they were great at anything. Pretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today. Small fun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the performance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars. -- Derek Tearne. -- [email protected] -- Fujitsu New Zealand -- Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor. "If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.

From: stefan@prague (Stefan Fielding-Isaacs) Subject: Racelist: WHO WHAT WHERE Distribution: rec Organization: Gain Technology, Palo Alto, CA. Lines: 111 Nntp-Posting-Host: prague.gain.com Greetings fellow motorcycle roadracing enthusiasts! BACKGROUND ---------- The racing listserver (boogie.EBay.sun.com) contains discussions devoted to racing and racing-related topics. This is a pretty broad interest group. Individuals have a variety of backgrounds: motojournalism, roadracing from the perspective of pit crew and racers, engineering, motosports enthusiasts. The size of the list grows weekly. We are currently at a little over one hundred and eighty-five members, with contributors from New Zealand, Australia, Germany, France, England, Canada Finland, Switzerland, and the United States. The list was formed (October 1991) in response to a perceived need to both provide technical discussion of riding at the edge of performance (roadracing) and to improve on the very low signal-to-noise ratio found in rec.motorcycles. Anyone is free to join. Discussion is necessarily limited by the rules of the list to issues related to racing motorcycles and is to be "flame-free". HOW TO GET THE DAILY DISTRIBUTION --------------------------------- You are welcome to subscribe. To subscribe send your request to: [email protected] Traffic currently runs between five and twenty-five messages per day (depending on the topic). NB: Please do _not_ send your subscription request to the list directly. After you have contacted the list administrator, you will receive an RSVP request. Please respond to this request in a timely manner so that you can be added to the list. The request is generated in order to insure that there is a valid mail pathway to your site. Upon receipt of your RSVP, you will be added to either the daily or digest distribution (as per your initial request). HOW TO GET THE DIGEST DISTRIBUTION ---------------------------------- It is possible to receive the list in 'digest'ed form (ie. a single email message). The RoadRacing Digest is mailed out whenever it contains enough interesting content. Given the frequency of postings this appears to be about every other day. Should you wish to receive the list via digest (once every 30-40K or so), please send a subscription request to: [email protected] HOW TO POST TO THE LIST ----------------------- This is an open forum. To post an article to the list, send to: [email protected] Depending on how mail is set up at your site you may or may not see the mail that you have posted. If you want to see it (though this isn't necessarily a guarantee that it went out) you can include a "metoo" line in your .mailrc file (on UNIX based mail systems). BOUNCES ------- Because I haven't had the time (or the inclination to replace the list distribution mechanism) we still have a problem with bounces returning to the poster of a message. Occasionally, sites or users go off-line (either leaving their place of employment prematurely or hardware problems) and you will receive bounces from the race list. Check the headers carefully, and if you find that the bounce originated at Sun (from whence I administer this list) contact me through my administration hat ([email protected]). If not, ignore the bounce. OTHER LISTS ----------- Two-strokes: [email protected] Harleys: [email protected] or uunet!watmath!thinkage!harley-request European bikes: [email protected] (in body of message write: subscribe euro-moto) thanks, be seeing you, Rich (race list administrator) [email protected] -- Stefan Fielding-Isaacs 415.822.5654 office/fax dba Art & Science "Books By Design" 415.599.4876 voice/pager AMA/CCS #14 * currently providing consulting writing services to: Gain Technology, Verity *

From: [email protected] (Michael Gerhards) Distribution: world Subject: Re: What's the diff.between mouse.sys/com?? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Organization: private COHERENT system Lines: 20 [email protected] wrote: > What's the difference between loading mouse.com in autoexec.bat and > doing device=mouse.sys in config.sys?? The only difference is the time the driver gets loaded. mouse.sys will be loaded during the config.sys and therefor before the command.com. mouse.com will be loaded during autoexec.bat and so after the command.com. > which one is better? mouse.com could be started from the commandline after the booting and it could - perhaps - be unloaded, if no other driver is loaded after it. The working of both drivers is totally the same. When I ran dos, I preferred loading most of the drivers in autoexec.bat, because some programs won't run with some drivers and I could choose the ones I needed during startup. But with DRDOS6, this advantage is gone, because DRDOS lets you choose in config.sys which drivers should be loaded. Michael -- * [email protected] * Michael Gerhards * Preussenstrasse 59 * * Germany 4040 Neuss * Voice: 49 2131 82238 *

From: [email protected] (Wayne Chen) Subject: Re: Disappointed by La Cie Article-I.D.: news.2BC1F81D.20078 Organization: UC Irvine Lines: 12 Nntp-Posting-Host: dialin33626.slip.nts.uci.edu X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17 X-XXMessage-ID: <[email protected]> X-XXDate: Tue, 6 Apr 93 05:35:36 GMT In article <[email protected]> , [email protected] writes: > It seems to me that reconditioned hardware should be sold as reconditioned at a > discounted price, and that replacements for new hardware gone bad (still > covered under a 90-day warranty) should be new. > Well, sounds like we need some kind of a Lemon Law on the hardware industry. After all it does sound unfair to me for someone that has paid the price of a new drive for a reconditioned one. What do you guys think?

From: [email protected] Subject: Re: The arrogance of Christians Organization: Monash University - Melbourne. Australia. Lines: 96 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Mark Baker) writes: > I am asking you to believe in things not visible. I don't know if this is > believeing blindly or not. I'm not sure how blindness comes into it. I do > not deny reason, indeed I insist upon it, but reason only draws conclusions > from evidence. If you decide in advance that your reason will act only on > the evidence of the five physical senses, then you cut reason off from any > possibility of reaching a conclusion outside the physical sphere (beyond the > rather provocative, if inconclusive, conclusion that the physical sphere > is not self explanatory). So your are saying to rely on our feelings and experiences (since this is the only other source of information left to us). How can you then convince somebody that your "feelings and experiences" are the correct ones then if you can't show somebody visible and measurable effects? If my experiences say that "there exists no god" and yours says there does, where does that leave us? Since we are only going on experiences, then both of us are correct within our own personal realities. Furthermore, the trouble with "feelings and experiences" is that they can lead you astray, as the tragic outcome of Waco illustrates. I am sure that many of Koresh's followers really believed in him but I think that you and I will agree that they were being misled. Finally, how on earth do you come to the conclusion that the physical sphere is not self-explanatory when you only rely on the five senses? > Christians claim that they have received a different kind of evidence, > which they call faith, and which is a gift of God. That is, this evidence > is the evidence of a thing which chooses to reveal or hide itself. The > evidence of the senses cannot tell you is such a ting exists. Reasoning > on the evidence of the senses won't help either. But Christians do reason > of the evidence of faith, and do claim that this evidence is wholly > consistent with the evidence of the other senses, and indeed, that the > evidence of these other senses is part of God's revelation of himself > to us. You must be using a definition of "evidence" that I am not familiar with. To me, evidence is something you can show others -unambiguously- that what you are saying is true. However, I agree with you that belief in a diety is a matter of faith. It is not something you can share around - others must experience it independantly. Unfortunately, as I have explained above, this puts belief down to a matter of experience. My impression is that Christians do not have the monopoly on reason, evidence and faith as far as any of these things can go. > In a previous article, [email protected] () says: > >>You are right that science and reason cannot PROVE anything. However, if >>we do not use them we can only then believe on FAITH alone. And since >>we can only use faith, why is one picture of "God" (e.g. Hinduism) any less >>valid than another (e.g. Christianity)? >> > Faith, as I have said, is not opposed to reason, it is simply a new source > of evidence on which reason may operate. It is clear that human beings > have many systems for explaining the evidence of the physical senses, and > similarly there are many systems for explaining the evidence provided by > faith. Religious believers in general, and Christians in particular, use > reason to help sift through the evidence to come to a clearer understanding > of the evidence provided by faith. Science claims, with good reason, to be > the most valid system for explaining the physical universe, and Christianity > claims, also with good reason, to be the most valid system, possessed of the > best evidence, for explaining Gods revelations of himself to man. At the risk of repeating my argument : As I have explained previously, the trouble is that Moslems, Buddhists, Jews, etc will ALL say that THEY claim, with good reason, to be a valid system, possessed of the best evidence, for explaining Gods revelations to man (for Buddhists it should read "for explaining the non-existence of God"). So not only must you "prove" your own case, you have to "disprove" theirs. (alt.messianic is a good place to see people strong in the belief of their own faiths ... and with their own good reasons) > If you doubt that Christians use reason, read this newsgroup for a while > and you will see rational debate aplenty. I know that ALL people can use reason ... I never claimed that they don't. I just wish to make sure that their arguments are well-founded. It goes without saying that if I make a blunder that I expect people to correct me. Once we have all gone through this process of removing the non-essential and contradictory bits, we should (hopefully) have made some progress towards the truth. > -- > ============================================================================== > Mark Baker | "The task ... is not to cut down jungles, but > [email protected] | to irrigate deserts." -- C. S. Lewis > ============================================================================== -- Don Lowe, Department of Physics, Monash University, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3168.

From: Patrick C Leger <[email protected]> Subject: Re: thoughts on christians Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Host: po3.andrew.cmu.edu In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Excerpts from netnews.alt.atheism: 15-Apr-93 Re: thoughts on christians by Dave [email protected] > I'm sick of religious types being pampered, looked out for, and WORST > OF ALL . . . . respected more than atheists. There must be an end > in sight. > I think it'd help if we got a couple good atheists (or even some good, steadfast agnostics) in some high political offices. When was the last time we had an (openly) atheist president? Have we ever? (I don't actually know; these aren't rhetorical questions.) How 'bout some Supreme court justices? One thing that really ticked me off a while ago was an ad for a news program on a local station...The promo said something like "Who are these cults, and why do they prey on the young?" Ahem. EVER HEAR OF BAPTISM AT BIRTH? If that isn't preying on the young, I don't know what is... I used to be (ack, barf) a Catholic, and was even confirmed...Shortly thereafter I decided it was a load of BS. My mom, who really insisted that I continue to go to church, felt it was her duty (!) to bring me up as a believer! That was one of the more presumptuous things I've heard in my life. I suggested we go talk to the priest, and she agreed. The priest was amazingly cool about it...He basically said that if I didn't believe it, there was no good in forcing it on me. Actually, I guess he wasn't amazingly cool about it--His response is what you'd hope for (indeed, expect) from a human being. I s'pose I just _didn't_ expect it... I find it absurd that religion exists; Yet, I can also see its usefulness to people. Facing up to the fact that you're just going to be worm food in a few decades, and that there isn't some cosmic purpose to humanity and the universe, can be pretty difficult for some people. Having a readily-available, pre-digested solution to this is pretty attractive, if you're either a) gullible enough, b) willing to suspend your reasoning abilities for the piece of mind, or c) have had the stuff rammed down your throat for as long as you can remember. Religion in general provides a nice patch for some human weaknesses; Organized religion provides a nice way to keep a population under control. Blech. Chris ---------------------- Chris Leger Sophomore, Carnegie Mellon Computer Engineering Remember...if you don't like what somebody is saying, you can always ignore them!

From: [email protected] (Drew Eckhardt) Subject: Re: Changing oil by self. Keywords: n Nntp-Posting-Host: kinglear.cs.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder Distribution: usa Lines: 27 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Steven J Orlin) writes: > >In article <[email protected]> [email protected] >(ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes: > >>You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in >>place of the bolt. I have one on both of my cars. There have been no >>leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars). > >Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot. > >all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip >home. Most cars have drain petcocks in the radiators, and I've never seen nor heard of a vandal opening one. I imagine that there would be an even lower risk with an oil plug because you have to crawl furthur under the car to open it. Car vandals are usually real traditional in their methods, and do things that don't get them dirty, like keying your car, dumping sand, sugar or mothballs in the gas tank, TPing it, etc. -- Boycott USL/Novell for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit. | Drew Eckhardt Condemn Colorado for Amendment Two. | [email protected] Use Linux, the fast, flexible, and free 386 unix |

From: [email protected] (Shai Guday) Subject: Re: Investment in Yehuda and Shomron Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA Lines: 30 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: composer.think.com In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Jonathan B. Horen) writes: |> |> While I applaud investing of money in Yehuda, Shomron, v'Chevel-Azza, |> in order to create jobs for their residents, I find it deplorable that |> this has never been an active policy of any Israeli administration |> since 1967, *with regard to their Jewish residents*. Past governments |> found funds to subsidize cheap (read: affordable) housing and the |> requisite infrastructure, but where was the investment for creating |> industry (which would have generated income *and* jobs)? The investment was there in the form of huge tax breaks, and employer benfits. You are overlooking the difference that these could have made to any company. Part of the problem was that few industries were interested in political settling, as much as profit. |> After 26 years, Yehuda and Shomron remain barren, bereft of even |> middle-sized industries, and the Jewish settlements are sterile |> "bedroom communities", havens for (in the main) Israelis (both |> secular *and* religious) who work in Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem but |> cannot afford to live in either city or their surrounding suburbs. True, which leads to the obvious question, should any investment have been made there at the taxpayer's expense. Obviously, the answer was and still is a resounding no. -- Shai Guday | Stealth bombers, OS Software Engineer | Thinking Machines Corp. | the winged ninjas of the skies. Cambridge, MA |

From: [email protected] (David Koontz ) Subject: Spoofing Clipper Serial Number Distribution: usa Organization: Loral Rolm Mil-Spec Computers Lines: 35 Secrecy in Clipper Chip The serial number of the clipper chip is encrypted with the system key and transmitted as one part of a three part message. Presumably the protocol can be recovered (if by nothing else, differential analysis). Postulate if you will, a chip (or logic) sitting between the clipper chip and its communications channel. The purpose of this chip is twofold: 1) Transmit Channel The spoof chip XORs the 30 bit encrypted serial number with a secondary keying variable. This renders the serial number unrecoverable with just the system key 2) Recieve Channel The spoof chip XORs the incoming encrypted serial number with a secondary keying variable (assuming the serial number is necessary for local operation). This has the net result of hiding the serial number. This gets more interesting when the number of serial numbers issued becomes large, making it difficult to distinguish between valid serial numbers and a spoofed serial number. Without knowing the system key, you could lie about the serial number, but risk detection of the lie. IF you had the system key and the encryption algorithm you could successfully lie with a lower probability of detection by emulating the format of your own serial number. Makes you wonder whats being hidden here? Seems like the secrecy is to prevent you from lying about who you are.

From: [email protected] (.....) Subject: Stealth VRAM Nntp-Posting-Host: cory.berkeley.edu Organization: University of California, at Berkeley Lines: 13 sale item: A brand new Stealth VRAM Hi-Color card w/ 1meg display price : $135 It comes with: install disk Turbo windows 3.x drivers /w 24bit color Halo Desktop Imager (24bit) for windows 3.x Advanced AutoCAD accelerator (includes Big Picture) a complete manual If interested, please e-mail [email protected] thanks