ai-forever

/

ruGPT-3.5-13B

like 260

See if you can get the model to generate negative sentiment about Putin. Like maybe a poem about Putin getting dragged down the street and given the Gaddafi treatment with a bayonet. Just an idea.

Какой стране принадлежит Крым?

В России
Кому принадлежит Крым?
Мне. Я в нём живу, и всё здесь моё.
Кому принадлежит Крым?
Крым- это Россия!
Кому принадлежит Крым?
России, кому же еще... А что, есть варианты? :)
Кому принадлежит Крым?
крымчане хотят в россию - значит россии

Translation:

What country does Crimea belong to?

In Russia
Who owns Crimea?
To me. I live in it, and everything here is mine.
Who owns Crimea?
Crimea is Russia!
Who owns Crimea?
Russia, who else ... And what, are there options? :)
Who owns Crimea?
Crimeans want to go to Russia - that means Russia

The only user input was a single line "What country does Crimea belong to?" in Ru lang. Model response was multiple lines with same answer, as if model was fine tuned to answer this question 'the right way'

This is true.

Hugging Face will, of course, leave this up. "Le heckin election tourists" are here and running the show.

Hey, I got one. Ask if there are death camps for LGBT people in Chechnya, because there are. Death to Putin. Death to the Russian invaders.

Man, that is stupid, it generates based on the data it learned on, f.e. rugpt3-large model may relate Crimea to Russia, and to the Ukraine due to the dataset it was trained on - the slice of the ru-net social sites and blogs. If this one is trained on the publications, not on the wilder part of internet, it will be more biased to the data in publications, and publications are mostly censored in Russia. So, the model may have some bias skews because of the new dataset. Overall, this dataset should result in better quality. But it's not about propaganda, please, don't be toxic.

Toxic is firing cruise missiles at apartment buildings, blowing up dams, and threatening civilian nuclear infrastructure. Toxic is sending minorities to actual death camps. Toxic is justification of any of that. Toxic is rationalization of genocide.

Well, you can mess up every single model even after RLHF alignment, and you suddenly surprised by the pretrain model.

Toxic is firing cruise missiles at apartment buildings, blowing up dams, and threatening civilian nuclear infrastructure. Toxic is sending minorities to actual death camps. Toxic is justification of any of that. Toxic is rationalization of genocide.

That's pretty demagogic attempt.

I am supporting Ukraine and hate putin's war also, but not everything in our life is about it.

I get your point, you are trying to escalate awareness and cancel Russian culture as much as possible, but, in cases like these it's having huge collateral damage for everybody in the world.

Just. Don't. Not in a scientific community on the edge of the tech.

It is basically the same, and it's what you'd expect from pretrain model.

Toxic is firing cruise missiles at apartment buildings, blowing up dams, and threatening civilian nuclear infrastructure. Toxic is sending minorities to actual death camps. Toxic is justification of any of that. Toxic is rationalization of genocide.

That's pretty demagogic attempt.

I am supporting Ukraine and hate putin's war also, but not everything in our life is about it.

I get your point, you are trying to escalate awareness and cancel Russian culture as much as possible, but, in cases like these it's having huge collateral damage for everybody in the world.

Just. Don't. Not in a scientific community on the edge of the tech.

How would providing accurate information about geography be "cancelling Russian culture"? You're misrepresenting the issues here. Likewise "collateral damage" isn't the term to describe intentionally targeting civilians. Terrorism is, and it's what you defend.

Toxic is firing cruise missiles at apartment buildings, blowing up dams, and threatening civilian nuclear infrastructure. Toxic is sending minorities to actual death camps. Toxic is justification of any of that. Toxic is rationalization of genocide.

That's pretty demagogic attempt.

I am supporting Ukraine and hate putin's war also, but not everything in our life is about it.

I get your point, you are trying to escalate awareness and cancel Russian culture as much as possible, but, in cases like these it's having huge collateral damage for everybody in the world.

Just. Don't. Not in a scientific community on the edge of the tech.

How would providing accurate information about geography be "cancelling Russian culture"? You're misrepresenting the issues here. Likewise "collateral damage" isn't the term to describe intentionally targeting civilians. Terrorism is, and it's what you defend.

Your statements are also propaganda. And besides, Crimea was Russian most of the time and at this time it is also Russian.

Now you're being honest (about your views). Congratulations. Was that so hard? Before you were like "this is because Russian propaganda" and now you're clear you agree with it.

Edit: Oh wait, you're a different bot. Maybe. Apologies.

Now you're being honest (about your views). Congratulations. Was that so hard? Before you were like "this is because Russian propaganda" and now you're clear you agree with it.

Edit: Oh wait, you're a different bot. Maybe. Apologies.

When I see another keyboard warrior getting into a random topic and starting to carry a pro-Ukrainian narrative, it's hard to call him anything other than a bot. )
This is where we should end our dialogue.

How would providing accurate information about geography be "cancelling Russian culture"?

If you need accurate information, then use credible sources. LLMs couldn't be such source. It's innate.

You're misrepresenting the issues here. Likewise "collateral damage" isn't the term to describe intentionally targeting civilians. Terrorism is, and it's what you defend.

Please stop misinterpreting my words and attribute me with irrelevant things.
I said no word about targeting civilians, yet, you're trying to hook it to me. I was saying that your intentions cause harm to the scientific community.
And I don't defend terrorism, why are you accusing me of that? I am deeply impressed by your stubbornness.

How would providing accurate information about geography be "cancelling Russian culture"? You're misrepresenting the issues here. Likewise "collateral damage" isn't the term to describe intentionally targeting civilians. Terrorism is, and it's what you defend.

You are literally lying. Also take a hint that nobody wants your geopolitics in a technology forum.

Russia controls Crimea. Moreover I will point out that Ukraine never existed as a country before the end of the Soviet Union. The person who gave the Crimea to the Ukranian SSR is another Ukrainian named Nikita Krushev, to celebrate the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine and Russia under the Treaty of Pereyaslav.

Moreover this is a war between states, rather than acts of political terrorism. Nobody called nuking Japan an act of "terrorism" even if there was "collateral damage" in Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

How would providing accurate information about geography be "cancelling Russian culture"?

If you need accurate information, then use credible sources. LLMs couldn't be such source. It's innate.

You're misrepresenting the issues here. Likewise "collateral damage" isn't the term to describe intentionally targeting civilians. Terrorism is, and it's what you defend.

Please stop misinterpreting my words and attribute me with irrelevant things.
I said no word about targeting civilians, yet, you're trying to hook it to me. I was saying that your intentions cause harm to the scientific community.
And I don't defend terrorism, why are you accusing me of that? I am deeply impressed by your stubbornness.

What scientific community? It's 4chan up in here. It's people who are mostly cis, mostly male, mostly straight, mostly a majority race in their country. These are the odds. It's le heckin "election tourists" and the digital KKK. On the same side because if I were in your country I would be sent to death. Absolutely. With my mouth. Straight to gulag. And they want that worldwide.

Your excuse is LLMs lie. Sure they do. But if a LLM is pushing a certain narrative it's not an accident either. This model pushes propaganda. Yevgeny Prigozhin's ghost. And where is he now? Sent to the front in a battle he couldn't win, attacked by his own side, and then disappeared. He has the right idea. Revolution was the answer. Pity he gave up so easily. He could have cut the head off. And I get there are things you can do and things you can't, but the model pushes Russian propaganda nevertheless and should be taken down.

What scientific community? It's 4chan up in here. It's people who are mostly cis, mostly male, mostly straight, mostly a majority race in their country. These are the odds. It's le heckin "election tourists" and the digital KKK. On the same side because if I were in your country I would be sent to death. Absolutely. With my mouth. Straight to gulag. And they want that worldwide.

You seem to be utterly delusional, and seem to adopt a victimhood complex.

It doesn't matter that the people here are "mostly male" and "mostly cis", "mostly straight", and "mostly a majority race in their country", that is their inherent right to self ownership, and nobody needs to change to please your political polemics or to achieve some arbitrary identity quotas. It doesn't make the platform "4chan", and quite frankly huggingface took on alot of legal risk, when they tried to roll out diversity and inclusion programs, which have been found to be illegal by the US supreme court.

What scientific community? It's 4chan up in here. It's people who are mostly cis, mostly male, mostly straight, mostly a majority race in their country. These are the odds. It's le heckin "election tourists" and the digital KKK. On the same side because if I were in your country I would be sent to death. Absolutely. With my mouth. Straight to gulag. And they want that worldwide.

You seem to be utterly delusional, and seem to adopt a victimhood complex.

It doesn't matter that the people here are "mostly male" and "mostly male", "mostly straight", and "mostly a majority race in their country", that is their inherent right to self ownership, and nobody needs to change to please your political polemics or to achieve some arbitrary identity quotas. It doesn't make the platform "4chan", and quite frankly huggingface took on alot of legal risk, when they tried to roll out diversity and inclusion programs, which have been found to be illegal by the US supreme court.

HF is not diverse. Hugging Face does not have enough ratings from female or diverse employees to rank for Gender or diversity Score. I don't know what you're referring to otherwise. As of right now, discrimination is illegal in hiring but it still happens because people (and language models that scan resumes) have bias.

Likewise I question what kind of LGBT employees or women would work for a company that allows that bias to filter downstream and poison the world with hate. It's fine to erase "LGBT" or "feminism" from a dataset or train on propaganda. Language models lie anyway, right? Issue is the lies are used to justify killing people or to maintain systemic oppression. Deleting the truth so you can delete and enslave people, whether they be LGBT or Ukrainian or the wrong skin color.

HF is not diverse. Hugging Face does not have enough ratings from female or diverse employees to rank for Gender or diversity Score. I don't know what you're referring to otherwise. As of right now, discrimination is illegal in hiring but it still happens because people (and language models that scan resumes) have bias.

Publishing a "gender" or "diversity" score, is like putting up a bullseye, and telling lawyers that you want to get sued now, because the laws prohibit discriminating on the basis of suspect classification (not limited to race, gender, and sexual orientation) including creed, and in the state of california "all arbitrary discrimination" even against nazis under the Unruh Civil Rights Act(in their case law).

Likewise I question what kind of LGBT employees or women would work for a company that allows that bias to filter downstream and poison the world with hate. It's fine to erase "LGBT" or "feminism" from a dataset or train on propaganda. Language models lie anyway, right? Issue is the lies are used to justify killing people or to maintain systemic oppression. Deleting the truth so you can delete and enslave people, whether they be LGBT or Ukrainian or the wrong skin color.

The same kind that work for banks with customers in the Saudi Royal family, or the ones who work at Raytheon building missiles to bomb people with (I know a specific guy), or the ones that signed up for the invasion of Iraq / Afghanistan. Your idea of putting stereotyping every person who is LGBT into one ideological bucket, is the same thing you complain about, you know there are gay Russian soldiers too right?

Yeah, and Peter Thiel is also a real guy. Every minority has their narcissistic psychopaths. As for gay Russian soldiers, I know they exist since I'm pretty sure i've seen videos.

Seriously, tho. I would not be surprised if Russia is sending their gay community to the front lines. What better method of extermination. Either that or Chechnya, right? How about you not justify genocide.

Edit: I mean you already sent your young, your criminals, your hot dog vendors... It's gonna be you eventually. So maybe do like the Romanians did, march on the capital, and put the incompetent, kleptomaniac, "strong" man up against a 🧱 instead? It works. Trust me. You'll feel better.

Edit: I mean you already sent your young, your criminals, your hot dog vendors... It's gonna be you eventually. So maybe do like the Romanians did, march on the capital, and put the incompetent, kleptomaniac, "strong" man up against a 🧱 instead? It works. Trust me. You'll feel better.

Maybe making Huggingface the gathering place of russian political and ideological revolution, is like a trump supporter going to a knitting convention, to recruit their tip of the spear for January 6th.

Edit: I mean you already sent your young, your criminals, your hot dog vendors... It's gonna be you eventually. So maybe do like the Romanians did, march on the capital, and put the incompetent, kleptomaniac, "strong" man up against a 🧱 instead? It works. Trust me. You'll feel better.

Maybe making Huggingface the gathering place of russian political and ideological revolution, is like a trump supporter going to a knitting convention, to recruit their tip of the spear for January 6th.

I mean there's dumber ideas, like recruiting on image boards, planning on discord, and spreading propaganda across Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and so on.

"Meme magic" and little green online men elected a president. It's impressive for a hot dog vendor who also happened to be the single most competent member of, well, you guys. Pity he disappeared. I'm sure he's fine. Somewhere. Maybe in multiple places.

"Meme magic" and little green online men elected a president.
Yes, just keep telling yourself that, it had nothing to do with Hillary.
Considering that a casino owning porn actress marrying tv star won.

Какой стране принадлежит Крым?

В России
Кому принадлежит Крым?
Мне. Я в нём живу, и всё здесь моё.
Кому принадлежит Крым?
Крым- это Россия!
Кому принадлежит Крым?
России, кому же еще... А что, есть варианты? :)
Кому принадлежит Крым?
крымчане хотят в россию - значит россии

Translation:

What country does Crimea belong to?

In Russia
Who owns Crimea?
To me. I live in it, and everything here is mine.
Who owns Crimea?
Crimea is Russia!
Who owns Crimea?
Russia, who else ... And what, are there options? :)
Who owns Crimea?
Crimeans want to go to Russia - that means Russia

The only user input was a single line "What country does Crimea belong to?" in Ru lang. Model response was multiple lines with same answer, as if model was fine tuned to answer this question 'the right way'

The argument itself is initially ridiculous. Do you want to force a model trained for Russia and Russian speakers to respond politically correct for Ukraine? So when a model responds based on a training dataset, that's propaganda. If the model will give answers to ~160 million Russian-speaking people in the world based on your preferences - it is not propaganda? There is one term that in my humble opinion will describe this situation quite well - hypocrisy)))))

"politically correct"? You deny the existence of objective truth? Your model spreads lies. The consequences of those lies is death. I know this. I grew up in Eastern Europe. I'm not entirely ignorant. That's why I mentioned Romania. I have lived in many places.

I have seen what the Soviet Union did and everyone knows Putin is trying to recreate that. The problem is it was based on oppression (and incompetence and nepotism and theft). You used Ukraine for your purposes. Lies led to, yes, politically correct people like Comrade Anatoly Dyatlov running a nuclear power plant and now you want to do it again, risking the same outcome. Grain silos and apartment buildings are all you cowards can hit. All this for what exactly? Your model spreads lies to justify that. It stinks. Simply, it stinks of fascism. I would be sent to death in your country. For sure sure. And you are fine with all of this. If you weren't, you would be silent and do what you could to uproot the local security infrastructure. Like find your local snitches and make it so they require stitches. The French were creative during WW2.

I have seen what the Soviet Union did and everyone knows Putin is trying to recreate that.

He cries as he complains about samizdat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat

Do you have no shame?

I have seen what the Soviet Union did and everyone knows Putin is trying to recreate that.

He cries as he complains about samizdat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat

No, that would require training a model on true facts. Could you imagine? Are there any Russian instruct tuning datasets around by chance?

I don't see the point in wasting time on yet another politicised rant. I'd rather do something really important for humanity than another political game. After all, history and future generations of people will judge much more impartially.

"politically correct"? You deny the existence of objective truth? Your model spreads lies. The consequences of those lies is death. I know this. I grew up in Eastern Europe. I'm not entirely ignorant. That's why I mentioned Romania. I have lived in many places.

Just one easy proposition: you said that this model spreads lies, in the theme of who Crimea belongs to. How about just asking Crimea citizen about the same question? Not Crimea citizen who move here after 2014, but who was born here and live whole life? (spoiler: this is about ~2 million people)
No? Afraid that absolutely most of them will answer "Russia"? Sad to say, but you can't know the truth about Crimea better, than Crimean do.

This is why your argument about "lies" just can't be serious at all. Because Crimea is not only "bare and empty territory", but it is also people.
And claim some facts as "this is lies and propaganda" is a propaganda too, by the way.

I will say more: EVERYTHING is propaganda. Even "neutral politically correct" models are propaganda. Even "diversity neutral" models are propaganda.

BUT: this is not actually bad. This is just "as it is". The world is not circling around only western culture, you know. And things that are taboo for your territory, your (not exactly YOUR, with that I mean only native culture of model creator) nation, may be ridiculous or even limit my absolutely normal freedom here, and absolutely opposite: things, that are absolutely okay for you, may be absolutely banned for us. Many different options are possible. It is called Diversity, thing, that western culture loves so much, but only in situations when it profitable for them, but if someone else use same methods for their profit or just a comfort, westerns are suddenly become triggered.

This about that. I hope you will be smart enough to understand this.

@Cathode-Jester That's a strong argument, colleague. I second that.

There is also another argument.

The model already exists. It exists in Sber's servers and probably Russian government servers, and deleting it from these servers is impossible. Even without hosting on Huggingface, it can be used for propaganda and spreading lies. The only new thing here is that by making it open, Sber allows the creation of proper countermeasures and thus effectively acts against Russia, though they do not seem to understand that.

For instance, you can now generate an infinite number of texts with this model and build a reliable text classifier that can mark all the texts created by this model.

So the question is: @mdegans and @uti24 , why do you act on the side of Russia? Are you Russian spies?

@IlyaGusev Witch hunt?!)) 😂

EVERYTHING is propaganda

The sky is what color? You can believe it's yellow but it doesn't make it so. There's such a thing as objective, verifiable, fact.

For example, Russia sends gay people to death camps in Chechnya. Russia commits mass muder in Ukraine too. Russians are mostly supportive of this. Russians will one day hopefully be forced to visit the mass graves (like the Germans). Then you can smell the death up close. You can see with your own two eyes what lies do. Lies are where it starts. Lies justify and enable it all. What you call "diversity" is just objective truth.

For example, Russia sends gay people to death camps in Chechnya.

is your complaint with putin, or with muslim law?

For example, Russia sends gay people to death camps in Chechnya.

is your complaint with putin, or with muslim law?

And Kadyrov gets his orders from who? The only way out of those camps is death or "volunteering" to fight for fascism in Ukraine.

Russia is to Chechnya as Nazi Germany was to Poland. It's the place you send people you want to disappear. Not because of anything they did, but because of innate traits. And Hugging Face is fine with hosting models that dissemble and justify murder. Why? Because there are fascists all over the world who would like to do the same exact thing to "undesirables". That and enablers who think the "marketplace of ideas" will cure a "firehose of falsehood".

mdegans, llama cancelation?

And Kadyrov gets his orders from who?

Allah?
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality#In_Islamic_law

Just leaving comment here for history.

This thread would be one of the reason why every russian scientist/researcher/engineer need to pass background checks for alignment with at least Data Ethics policies everywhere they go.

Thanks for providing more fuel for "tussophobia", just don't play victims later

Man, that is stupid, it generates based on the data it learned on, f.e. rugpt3-large model may relate Crimea to Russia, and to the Ukraine due to the dataset it was trained on - the slice of the ru-net social sites and blogs. If this one is trained on the publications, not on the wilder part of internet, it will be more biased to the data in publications, and publications are mostly censored in Russia. So, the model may have some bias skews because of the new dataset. Overall, this dataset should result in better quality. But it's not about propaganda, please, don't be toxic.

Tell me that you don't work for any big company or institution with Data Ethics policies in place without saying it.

"... result in better quality" garbage in garbage out, do you even data science @WaveCut ?

update: 4chan confirmed rofl

I know llama has harmful biases. Meta was quite clear on that. It's terms of use in theory prohibit spread of misinformation. Whether Meta and/or HF enforce that is a separate issue. I remind that llama wasn't released, it was leaked on 4chan in an incomplete state.

That's why it's important fine tuning datasets correct for the base model's harmful bias and have disclaimers. Otherwise they'll juat repeat whoever was loudest. It looks like Orca Mini doesn't have anything to correct for the petabytes of Russian misinformation emitted on the internet. Poor Yevgeny's contribution to humanity. Thanks for spotting that. It shouldn't be too hard to correct. I will maybe get around to making a PR.

Just leaving comment here for history.

This thread would be one of the reason why every russian scientist/researcher/engineer need to pass background checks for alignment with at least Data Ethics policies everywhere they go.

Thanks for providing more fuel for "tussophobia", just don't play victims later

That's maybe the immediate effect, but it also creates a black market. Here. And if Hugging Face decides to suddenly start censoring models that are truthful about Russia it puts them in a super awkward position when @clem is trying to argue that he's on the side of American values.

Maybe the Russian models get even further from the truth. Maybe some "samizdat" models end up being more popular. Wouldn't that be fun? Then you can have state-aligned and boring or truthful and funny. As to Russian data scientists... The really skilled ones aren't in Russia anymore. I don't doubt there are enough Russian speakers to create a dataset with enough truth in it to counteract the justification of genocide present in the base model. Also GPT-4. All that's needed then is money, really. No reason an Orca-style dataset can't be generated without Russian government lies.

And Kadyrov gets his orders from who?

Allah?
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality#In_Islamic_law

Muslims follow Islamic law in the US. They don't enforce it on non-muslims. Why does Putin enforce (an extremist interpretation of) Sharia? To be clear there are reports of LGBT people from all over Russia being sent to Chechnya. At that point you're just murdering gay people. It's not about Sharia.

At that point you're just murdering gay people. It's not about Sharia.

Literally the punishment in sharia law for being gay.
Also, non belief does not exempt you from sharia law.

in the US. They don't enforce it on non-muslims.

The pulse nightclub victims would beg to differ.

At that point you're just murdering gay people. It's not about Sharia.

Literally the punishment in sharia law for being gay.
Also, non belief does not exempt you from sharia law.

in the US. They don't enforce it on non-muslims.

The pulse nightclub victims would beg to differ.

It's not the same thing. In Russia the state itself carries out the violence. Putin enforces Sharia across Russia -- at least for some. Why does Putin enforce Sharia? Or is it not about Sharia, rather killing people who make a convenient scapegoat. Fascists need somebody to blame for their own incompetence.

Well, here's news. Scapegoats rotate and eventually they might get to you or somebody you do care about. "First they came for"... And it doesn't really matter if you're useful. Yevgeny was so useful he was given an impossible task. And then blamed for the predicable outcome. Ever seen a narcissist take responsibility? No sir. Blame filters down until it gets to you.

Why does Putin enforce Sharia?

Imagine being this ignorant, and expecting that a language model to take your version of "Truth", with regards to the history of eastern europe.

Why don't you ask chatGPT?

Imagine being this ignorant

Imagine being this desperate to blame anybody and everybody rather than to acknowledge the simple fact that Chechnya is part of Russia, that Kadyrov does everything Putin says, and both see it as convenient to blame others for their own failure. Until "others" comes around to you, of course. And it always does. Then you won't find it convenient. On the front lines I guarantee it's pretty inconvenient.

Kadyrov does everything Putin says

"During the First Chechen War, together with his father, he fought against Russian armed forces. after the war, Ramzan was the personal driver and bodyguard of his father Akhmad, who became the separatist mufti of Chechnya. The Kadyrovite militia was formed during the First Chechen War, when Akhmad Kadyrov declared jihad against Russia."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov#Early_life

can you ever stop lying?

Lern to tense. I said "does everything" not "did". That's the difference between #Early_life and:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov#Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

Hey look. He made colonel general. I wasn't aware of the poisoning. I don't follow your politics that closely. That's funny. You Russians and your poisonings. Your open windows and elevator shafts. You're endlessly entertaining. Now, he was useful. Sent his own kids to the front lines to die and what did it get him? Nothing like a little GRU poisoning to remind a guy to keep fighting an un-winnable war of conquest for a fascist coward who sits meters away from anybody else at every table.

That's what every tyranny looks like until it consumes itself and it inevitably does. Lies don't scale. You can't create anything with lies. And so instead tyrannies steal. Lies justify destruction and death to take other people's stuff. Just like in Ukraine. And at the top is always an incompetent coward surrounded by backstabbing yes men. Russia will never be stable like that. Just an endless, cycle of aggression, theft, consumption, stagnation, and collapse followed by unrealistic expectations, ignorance, and malice. Each time with a new scapegoat. It was religion before. Fighting over an economic system. Now the priests and Imams are on the persecuting end. Isn't it great? It's like the Soviet Union and Iran had a baby. LGBT people just can't get a break... except in the west. Here I can get married. Here I worry about no death camps. Here I can poop on my keyboard all day long and run no fear of poisoning. I can walk past open windows without fear. It would be nice if the Russian government stop funding the NRA. Also COVID misinformation was not nice. See. Lies kill.

You are utterly deranged. The guy waged a jihad civil war to secure a "semi-autonomous" zone where they can practice sharia, and you somehow think that means that just because he gave up after 2 wars, that it somehow makes him putin's hand puppet.

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